Generally unimpressed

[Mrs Westy]

Ditto  

I love you all really, I just can't resist playing devils advocate  

[Blatman]

You do it so well.

And those horns and that trident look good on you too. Don't even make your bum look big or anyfink

[BN-ZE-11]

I first joined the club in 1989 while I was building my first Westie and found it a good source of infomation both in the club mag and the Sussex area meetings. I now live in Germany and bought my second Westie 2 years ago and although it costs me 30 quid I joined the club. It does not have many    benefits for me but I still think its good value for money. Maybe the club could organise a camping weekend at the Ring, then I would get a bit more out of the club.  

I find the board to be very informative and has helped me solve quite a few problems and I am quite prepared to support this though my membership fee.

[Guest]

can i suggest being a member of something that you can't use is a little ......err excentric.

[adhawkins]

He'll still get a magazine I guess, and he'd be more than welcome at Meet the Neighbours

Andy

[neilwillis]

I for one would love to go and have a shot at the ring some day.  

I know some of our guys come over every year, so try and get in touch with Mark Purves, I'm sure they'd love to meet up with you.

Perhaps we might benefit from your local knowledge when it comes to organising a ring trip?

Is that far enough South for some of our quasi-antipodean brethren too?   I know what you'll say, it's probably further North than you, but at least you'll have to go South to the ferry first!  

How do we stand on public liability insurance for overseas ventures?

[mb893]

Given that I'm a club AO and I organize 'events' in the name of the WSCC, am I covered by the PL insurance?

If an incident occurs are only members of the WSCC covered or are all attendees in the group covered?

If so, exactly what/how am I covered...? A PM would be fine if the reply is convoluted.

Edit to ask:

If I'm not covered, how do I get covered?

[Mrs Westy]

Well having had a few interesting discussions about this outside the forum, I thought I'd better clarify.  It's a traditional three-point sermon I'm afraid  

1.  Nowhere have I said that the WSCC isn't worth £25 a year, I think it's very good value for what you get.  However I don't think that every Westfield owner should be expected to join the club as a matter of course; you wouldn't expect someone to buy a pair of shoes they had no intention of wearing (even if they do have feet to put them on), so why would you expect someone to join a club they have no intention of doing anything with?

2.  Volunteers are great; they are hardworking, they do things off their own backs, they often go unthanked, and of course a lot of things wouldn't get done without their input.  However, when newcomers suggestions are rebuffed and their ideas dismissed,  it just gives the impression of people with a huge chip on their shoulder and is hardly conducive to that person then wanting to muck in and help out.  Sometimes people may even have suggestions that will save work instead of create more of it, but if people feel that they aren't being listened to, they won't bother suggesting them and certainly won't want to get on board and help out.

It can also be a process - I'm sure everyone here started out knowing bog all about cars, and as such were unable to contribute to help someone else with a problem.  But over time, with help and assistance, many of those people now give help and advice to others.  Heck, even I can give a sensible bit of car advice from time to time.  It's an organic process, I don't think you can necessarily expect a newbie to pick up the mantle and just organise something - some may be quite capable of doing so, but many won't be.  Which leads me neatly into my third and final point...

3.  Volunteers come in all shapes and sizes.  Not everyone has the necessary skills and abilities to be able to organise an event, and some people have more capacity within that than others.  I couldn't organise my way out of a paper bag so there's absolutely no use in me volunteering to do that.  I don't think that necessarily means that I am unable or unwilling to contribute, it just means that I have different skills to put on the table.  Yes of course you need the people who do have those organisational skills, and those are very important and things wouldn't happen without them, but there are also other ways for people to contribute.  

Apologies if anyone thought I was making a personal attack, especially on unpaid volunteers.  I'm not, I'm just trying to convey the fact that you sure as hell aren't going to gain more volunteers by pushing people away before they've even got to the front door, and that's the tone that I was picking up from this thread.

[Boomy]

I think people just enjoy a good "debate" on forums to be honest.

Point out that you are due to have a life saving operation and 15 people may respond and wish you well.

Post up a Caterham vs Westfield debate and you will get people registering just to join in as it goes on and on for 30 pages.

[Club Secretary (Reserve)]

QUOTE

Given that I'm a club AO and I organize 'events' in the name of the WSCC, am I covered by the PL insurance?

Yes. HOWEVER, whilst the RBFYB runs and such like are covered whilst you are parked at either end, normal RTA insurance covers you whilst driving. If an organised event ever exceeds 12 cars, and includes all 12+ cars running the same route at roughly the same time, we need to know beforehand as extra insurance and MSA permits may be required, and we may have to notify the local police as well. Yes, really. It's all to do with touring assembly rules, and some parts of the Criminal Justice Act.

QUOTE

If an incident occurs are only members of the WSCC covered or are all attendees in the group covered?

ONLY WSCC MEMBERS ARE COVERED.

For the record, and as noted in the minutes of the 2005 AGM published in Westfield World at about this time last year, we curently carry £5,000,000 (five million pounds sterling) of public liability insurance cover.

For example, if a member of the public burns a leg on a non members exhaust whilst parked at a WSCC area meet or event, the non member isn't covered. So, if, for example, Harv turns up at the Surrey meet, and a hapless punter burns his or her leg on Harvs exhaust, Harv will need his own insurance and legal team as he is not a WSCC member. If the same hapless punter burns himself on a WSCC members exhaust and decides to make a claim, then the WSCC member is covered.

This leads on to an accompanying point/issue. I must stress that it HASN'T happened yet, but I can forsee a possible requirement for segregated parking in the future, especially for large events like Stoneleigh, but possibly including area meets. It is just possible that in future, we simply won't be able to allow non members to bring their cars on to the stands at shows. I can see potential problems arising if we did get a claim from a punter doing something daft involving a non members car, insurance companies being what they are and actively seeking to not pay claims. I don't want them to have any way to get out of a properly brought claim, but a non member could well cause us problems IF and incident were to occur. This also raises the issue of AO's making sure they know who's attending, and taking some tme to meet and greet new potential members, as well as ensuring their members cars are parked sensibly and appropriately. It's as simple as using the marked bays if there are any, or simply getting yourselves in a nice row or two so that it is obvious what is going on. Scatter parking may be a problem.

In summary then, if you are a WSCC AO or bona fide WSCC member attending an area meet or a show, or are otherwise gathered at an appropriate meeting place during a WSCC sanctioned event (sanctioned events include AO's own local events, subject to the 12 car rule above), you are covered against claims arising from a member of the public damaging themselves in, on or around the immediate area. If you are NOT a bona fide WSCC member, you're on your own.

[mb893]

Many thanks for the clarification...

[JeffC]

I for one would love to go and have a shot at the ring some day.  

too easy          

[westyblade]

I for one would love to go and have a shot at the ring some day.  

too easy          

You just can't resist can you    

[JeffC]

I know I need therapy            

[jeff oakley]

This has rasied some interesting points and is worthwhile reading. Going back to the origanal post there are times when new visitors to the site, wether members or not really do get shot at in replies from some members. Now much of this is light hearted but to someone who doesn't know the "craic" then they can take it the wrong way and be put off. I always assume that the person asking the question is not some imbercile who is a nusciance, but someone who wants to know about my type of car and hobby. I will assist where ever and whoever  I can. What I find amusing is sometimes people giving advice, in particular technical, which they asked about themselves in the past and are now the expert.

Now on value for money, this is not a new discussion and every time we get the usual comments from members, but lets be realistic like all things you get out what you put in. I am not an AO but help by organising the Xmas do, I have had a hand in several members cars locally and rescued members with my trailor, my phone is constantly answering technical queries for members who ask for it etc etc, and if you saw my personal work load around the South of England, like Chris Bradley's our AO who commutes to the States and many others in the club we all manage to put something in,so for anyone to say they have no time to get involved is lame, what they really mean is they want someone to do it for them. Now I have no problem with that but don't moan when we don't have something on your doorstep on your day off.

The speed series is not for everyone but there are other things we get out of the club but if your expectation are unrealistic then you will be disapointed. One of the best things I have got out of the club is friends and that is priceless to me.

As I said earlier it is good this thread has raised some points to discuss, because I have attended some AGMs and no one questions the value or anything really on the day, is this because it involves some individual effort whereas the board room is more annoymous and you don't have to leave your own home.

I would like to see out of this that we all take care when new members come to the board and to our club meets we make them welcome and assist to answer their questions factually with out the "do a search and Join up" type comments. When people want to join they will if they are comfortable. Once they are members and they know us and we know them then banter is good to have. I cannot see any reason to change what we have.