Prorogation of Parliament.

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

13 minutes ago, Stuart said:

I haven't read all this thread, but has anyone mentioned the destruction of young people's futures in order that politicians don't lose face and/or the federal Europe roller coaster isn't derailed?  The Euro is responsible for the exceptionally high youth unemployment rates in Greece, Spain, Italy and elsewhere.  It's a failed currency experiment, and the breathtaking arrogance of continuing with it is a good reason alone to distance ourselves.....

 

I must say I thought a single currency was a daft idea, but of course it wasn't a fiscal measure, it's political and aimed at ever closer union. I first visited Japan in 1975 and the Yen was roughly 700 to the pound. That meant that the price of Japanese goods was low and it helped them to build their industries. However, because (a) they were fairly successful, and (b) the Yen and Pound were free to vary vs each other the Yen sank and sank to its current level of 132 to the Pound - even with Brexit causing sterling to drop in value. This means that Japanese goods are now much more expensive and they now compete on fairer terms with the rest of the world instead of dumping goods at silly prices. A single currency does not allow this natural levelling, and the poorer nations in Europe, who would devalue to compete in the past, are stuck with a currency driven by Germany et al, and those poorer nations simply get poorer as their industries cannot compete in the export markets. 

[Blatman]

On 29/09/2019 at 12:35, DonPeffers said:

Reuters article dated 13 March 2019 and The Independent article is dated 02 July 2019 (not a day apart).

You posts were a day apart.

So either within the 3 months of each report the Chinese rounded up another half a million or the numbers are wrong. Each reporter will have an angle along with trying to draw in more readers. Having spent a LOT of time with reporters (see below) I do have a great deal of respect for them. However they still have a job to do apart from the story that requires them grabbing peoples attention usually by using hyperbole. But I digress...

 

On 30/09/2019 at 20:13, jim_l said:

Truth is families are split, there are many from everywhere on the economic spectrum disagreeing about this, more significant than class is probably the age divide, 

I draw similarities to the miners strike and their support of the printers when the print industry changed, led by Murdoch and his move to News Internationals new (back then) hi-tech printing plant at Wapping (now torn down!). I was a contractor at Wapping, working for the 4 newspapers produced there. My father was a printer. We didn't actually fall out but we had quite a few earnest discussions about it. I know plenty of families with opposing views. They discuss Brexit but none of them are actually properly falling out over it.

[AdamR]

Like Jim, I know of serious family feuds due to Brexit (eg. not speaking any more, at all). It's a real shame we weren't presented with the facts - or at least an estimated version of events - up front. I guess it's to be expected with politicians though, especially those who are more interested in lining their own pockets than anything else.

[Alan France]

With the latest round of Quantitive Easing and minus 0.5% interest rates the EU has no monetary of fiscal defences left. If we get a global recession perhaps the EU will have to leave us.

[DonPeffers]

15 hours ago, Blatman said:

You posts were a day apart.

So either within the 3 months of each report the Chinese rounded up another half a million or the numbers are wrong. Each reporter will have an angle along with trying to draw in more readers. Having spent a LOT of time with reporters (see below) I do have a great deal of respect for them. However they still have a job to do apart from the story that requires them grabbing peoples attention usually by using hyperbole. But I digress...

 

 

Why not research a bit further Blatman as there are enough newspaper articles and UN reports, but do bear in mind that the figures are always estimated and the Chinese Government denied the existence of the camps for a good while. Now China admits the camps exist but refuses to give numbers.  See 21June2019   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-china-blog-48700786   "Searching for truth in China's Uighur 're-education' camps".

 

3 hours ago, Alan France said:

With the latest round of Quantitive Easing and minus 0.5% interest rates the EU has no monetary of fiscal defences left. If we get a global recession perhaps the EU will have to leave us.

 

 SEPTEMBER 12 2019  https://www.ft.com/content/9b2c29c0-d53d-11e9-a0bd-ab8ec6435630   

 

"ECB cuts rates and tells governments to act

Fresh stimulus package for eurozone as growth forecast downgraded".

 

"The European Central Bank has announced its biggest package of rate cuts and economic stimulus in three years as President Mario Draghi warned governments that they needed to act quickly to revive flagging eurozone growth.".

[jim_l]

With reference to the latest proposal...

 

A European Commission spokesperson said on Thursday: "There are... problematic points in the UK's proposal and further work is needed, but that work needs to be done by the UK and not the other way around.   "We would remind you that it's the UK leaving the EU and not the EU leaving the UK.

 

Knobhead! (is that expression allowed on here? if not I will promptly find another) It doesn't matter a jot who is leaving who, the two entities are separating, the work on how that happens needed all along to be done by both parties.  This has been their approach - obstructive, and extremely irritating, and they have at no point negotiated in good faith, it is clear. 

 

Jim

 

 

 

[Steve (sdh2903)]

Hardly surprising they aren't waving us off considering we're their 2nd biggest net contributor. But I agree they should just get their thumbs out of their ass and get on with it. 

[Alan France]

As least the ECB is now in good hands! As the Mises Institute reports:

 

"It's rare to find someone who is consistently wrong on everything. Christine Lagarde...comes close" 

 

Of her actions in the IMF they reported: "Pumping yet more credit into the Eurozone is as effective as giving adrenalin to a dead horse."

 

Good luck EU.

 

[jeff oakley]

Remember as per the article below, the new head of the ECB was convicted of a criminal offence. Unsurprisingly she did not get any real punishment and has gone on to this plum EU job. 

 

In any other world she would not even been considered for the role as having a criminal conviction would make you unemployable but here in the crazy insular world of the EU she was deemed the best. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/christine-lagarde-convicted-imf-head-found-guilty-of-negligence-in-fraud-trial-a7484586.html

[DonPeffers]

Ursula von der Leyen elected as next EU Commission president replacing Jean-Claude Juncker   https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ursula-von-der-leyen-elected-eu-commission-president-new-views-germany-brexit-army-a9007466.html   She is due to take office on 1 November.

 

Ursula von der Leyen to be plagued by scandal  16 Jul 2019   https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1153829/EU-news-Ursula-von-der-Leyen-European-Commission-president-Germany-defence-latest   

 

"Last month Dennis Rohde, a spokesman for the Social Democratic Party, which is Angela Merkel’s coalition partner in government, said the the (German) defence ministry had dished out contracts “unlawfully”.

He said: “The affair has two strands for me. One is that, on a large scale, contracts to outside consultants were unlawfully awarded, obviously favouring companies that had a good connection to the ministry of defence."

 

Seems millions not accounted for, but incompetence only, so forgiven.

[Alan France]

I watched peace break out in Parliament yesterday with hints that Boris could get his deal through.

 

Quite ironic that the Benn (surrender) bill now makes a no deal even more likely as there is now no incentive for the EU to play ball. Unintended consequences or was the bill designed to try to stop Brexit? (Of course it was!)

[Blatman]

On 03/10/2019 at 14:53, DonPeffers said:

Why not research a bit further Blatman as there are enough newspaper articles and UN reports, but do bear in mind that the figures are always estimated and the Chinese Government denied the existence of the camps for a good while. Now China admits the camps exist but refuses to give numbers.  See 21June2019   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-china-blog-48700786   "Searching for truth in China's Uighur 're-education' camps".

So the numbers are guesses. How will research help if the best we can do is guess? Maybe it's less than the figures purported but headlines must be grabbed to get the story picked up

With there being ZERO chance of the Chinese responding the reporters are free to "estimate" whatever they want. Whilst I agree that more light needs to be shone onto the Chinese Human Rights abuses, inaccurate reporting all too easily gets remembered (or can be spun as) incorrect reporting, and that would be a real travesty on every level, for both the reporting agency and those for whom justice is impossible to find.

 

On 03/10/2019 at 15:29, jim_l said:

This has been their approach - obstructive, and extremely irritating, and they have at no point negotiated in good faith, it is clear. 

Been saying this for months. I couldn't agree more.

[DonPeffers]

On 03/10/2019 at 14:53, DonPeffers said:

 

Why not research a bit further Blatman as there are enough newspaper articles and UN reports, but do bear in mind that the figures are always estimated and the Chinese Government denied the existence of the camps for a good while. Now China admits the camps exist but refuses to give numbers.  See 21June2019   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-china-blog-48700786   "Searching for truth in China's Uighur 're-education' camps".

 

11 hours ago, Blatman said:

So the numbers are guesses. How will research help if the best we can do is guess? Maybe it's less than the figures purported but headlines must be grabbed to get the story picked up

With there being ZERO chance of the Chinese responding the reporters are free to "estimate" whatever they want. Whilst I agree that more light needs to be shone onto the Chinese Human Rights abuses, inaccurate reporting all too easily gets remembered (or can be spun as) incorrect reporting, and that would be a real travesty on every level, for both the reporting agency and those for whom justice is impossible to find.

 

On 28/09/2019 at 17:34, Blatman said:

Plus the story says "could be". This is a journalist doing what they are supposed to do, bringing news of an attrocity in the hope of preventing it. Lets see what actually happens.

 

Have you read any reports or viewed the satellite photos of vast new (prison) re-education facilities? Guessing is a lot different to estimating as I feel sure you know.

Abhorrent organ harvesting from prisoners started before the Uighurs detention but reports say it is ongoing.

 

There have been terrorist incidents involving Uighurs but that cannot justify the mass internment.The West must speak out about ethnic cleansing on a vast scale and NOT resort to 'just a journo exaggerating' lines. No wonder Hong Kong is in flames with violent protests as the young there have seen a glimpse of the future and it's not pretty.

[Blatman]

On 05/10/2019 at 11:16, DonPeffers said:

Guessing is a lot different to estimating as I feel sure you know

 

Well, there's educated guessing, plain guessing and estimates based on experience. But the bottom line is they are finger-in-the-air numbers.

How experienced are the reporters at estimating numbers based on the size of a plot of land, buildings or whatever taken from satellite photos? 

I'm sticking with guesses.

[DonPeffers]

Belatedly responding to Blatman above.... leaving aside Xinjiang's empty towns and numbers incarcerated and having their ethnic identity altered, an easier check on the ethnic cleansing going on might be to count the number of Mosques obliterated to dust by the authorities with viewable satellite images online.  Also ABC News has recent reports https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-08/us-places-28-chinese-security-companies-on-trade-blacklist/11582418  and https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-17/target-cotton-on-drop-suppliers-after-four-corners-investigation/11607518  about mass slave labour.

 

Now back to the original OP which was about individuals using the Courts to overturn Government Parliamentary decisions.

 

16 Oct 2019  https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-campaigners-launch-bid-to-ban-boris-johnson-from-putting-deal-before-mps-a4263531.html   "Brexit news latest: Campaigners launch bid to ban Boris Johnson from putting deal before MPs"  "Anti-Brexit campaigners are planning to lodge a legal action to ban the Government from putting its proposed Withdrawal Agreement before Parliament as Boris Johnson closes in on a deal."

 

Seems unusual when the campaigners insisted previously that Parliament must sit and be heard??!