Prorogation of Parliament.

[jeff oakley]

I am not sure Boris is as bad as others make out, we have had some truly shocking MP's who have lied and are still thought well of. Double standards abound, major prorogued parliament to avoid cash for questions inquiry yet had the brass neck to say what Boris did was wrong.

 

The issue is simple to my mind, the remain MP's want to ensure through this chaos that not PM can ever leave the EU, that is why they want to ensure any deal comes back to the house so it can be blocked. This is why they all shout for Boris to go, but do not want an election. If he got an election without the legal ruling out of a no deal brexit being in place then he could win a majority and do what he wants which might include carrying out the wishes of the 17.4 who voted leave.

 

But if they succeed it means that no PM could ever leave the EU, but they will claim that is democracy at work. However you voted that is not democracy and what it shows is contempt of the population who MP's consider too stupid for their own good. 

[jim_l]

17 hours ago, Blatman said:

 I do believe that Labour with Corbyn are un-electable. And yesterdays announcement about drug patents is so badly thought out that I genuinely fear for the supply of essential meds if he makes this happen.

 

I think Corbyn wants what 95% of people want, a fairer Britain in a fairer world. How does a man like that end up polling the lowest of any opposition PM in 50 years? By making a whole raft of poorly thought out, unrealistic and extremely expensive promises to a nation that is already £2 trillion in debt, that is how. 

 

His generic Pharma.gov can't be costed, or realised, drugs are made in thousands of different factories using thousands of different sets of machinery and complex techniques. A generic manufacturer, a dozen generic manufacturers, perhaps even a hundred generic manufacturers, could not make the "we will make it ourselves" threat to big pharma real.  Note also that pharma spends £200 billion a year on research, tell them you will hit their profitability, they'll stop looking for the cures for cancer and Alzheimer's (OR maybe we as a nation borrow the £200 billion and carry on,  really?)

 

The focus on big pharma and it's profit motives isn't always justified (except for a some highly publicised examples that do amount to extortion!).
    100 years ago if you had diabetes you would be told to go home and write a will. 
    Without pharma more than 10 million of the people over 65 living in the UK would be dead, and almost all of the people over 85. 
    We would need hundreds more hospitals, often a £1 pill is what is keeping someone out of a £500 a night hospital stay. 

It needs to be challenged, and it needs to regulated, not putting under the oversight of our parliamentarians - have you seen them!

 

Note that nobody is shouting at car manufacturers? Car manufacturer's are putting hundreds of billions into developing electric cars, their motive? tomorrow's profit. Does he want them to stop? or does he want the government to do that too.

 

 

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

I have a nagging suspicion that what Corbyn says from outside No.10, is diametrically opposite to what he (and his cronies) would do once inside No.10. Cynic? Moi? Mais oui!

[Blatman]

56 minutes ago, jim_l said:

I think Corbyn wants what 95% of people want, a fairer Britain in a fairer world.

 

Fairer Britain fair enough but it'll never happen. There is always going to be some section of society that feels hard done by.

 

Fairer world? By who's standards? As if any one nation, or even group of nations, has the capability to do that.

[Blatman]

1 hour ago, MrPid said:

lost any bargaining power with the EU

 

Do you think May had bargaining power? As we have seen the EU don't bargain or negotiate. They have a list of demands which are seemingly set in stone. Boris sees this. Or at least, I like to think Boris sees this. His reaction is the same. These are our demands. It brings a stalemate which CAN be broken. It just takes some balls. I am hoping Boris has them. 

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

1 hour ago, jim_l said:

 

I think Corbyn wants what 95% of people want, a fairer Britain in a fairer world. How does a man like that end up polling the lowest of any opposition PM in 50 years? By making a whole raft of poorly thought out, unrealistic and extremely expensive promises to a nation that is already £2 trillion in debt, that is how. 

 

His generic Pharma.gov can't be costed, or realised, drugs are made in thousands of different factories using thousands of different sets of machinery and complex techniques. A generic manufacturer, a dozen generic manufacturers, perhaps even a hundred generic manufacturers, could not make the "we will make it ourselves" threat to big pharma real.  Note also that pharma spends £200 billion a year on research, tell them you will hit their profitability, they'll stop looking for the cures for cancer and Alzheimer's (OR maybe we as a nation borrow the £200 billion and carry on,  really?)

 

The focus on big pharma and it's profit motives isn't always justified (except for a some highly publicised examples that do amount to extortion!).
    100 years ago if you had diabetes you would be told to go home and write a will. 
    Without pharma more than 10 million of the people over 65 living in the UK would be dead, and almost all of the people over 85. 
    We would need hundreds more hospitals, often a £1 pill is what is keeping someone out of a £500 a night hospital stay. 

It needs to be challenged, and it needs to regulated, not putting under the oversight of our parliamentarians - have you seen them!

 

Note that nobody is shouting at car manufacturers? Car manufacturer's are putting hundreds of billions into developing electric cars, their motive? tomorrow's profit. Does he want them to stop? or does he want the government to do that too.

 

 

 

Most of us have no problem with a fairer Britain in a fairer world. But Corbyn and his key team hold Marxist beliefs which they will force onto the population of this country if they get into power.  Have you seen their policies on Re-Nationalising some industries and other policies which effectively make them unelectable.

Having worked in the late 70's when we last had 3 day weeks, 15% mortgage rates, massive unrest and failing industries due to a whole raft of reasons but also wildcat strikes. The UK really  was the basket case of Europe economically and in so many other ways. There are still a lot of people who remember these days and never want to see them repeated and they will never vote for Corbyn. 

 

[Terry Everall]

totally agree Nick

[jim_l]

2 hours ago, Blatman said:

Fairer Britain fair enough but it'll never happen. There is always going to be some section of society that feels hard done by.

 

Fairer world? By who's standards? As if any one nation, or even group of nations, has the capability to do that.

 

I did use the word 'Fairer' rather than 'Fair' so I agree, we won't get to Nirvana.  It starts to become fairer as soon as we reverse the process of the poor becoming poorer whilst functioning as the engine by which the rich get stupidly rich, simply, a) higher wages, b)higher corporation taxes, c) higher taxes on the extremely wealthy, all putting more  money into the hands of government, which they can then invest in the country and take better care of the less fortunate.  ALL of these things prevented by the four freedoms of the EU, at risk of repetition, because in the EU corporations and the wealthy are free to "make cheap, sell it expensive, then move the profits to a HQ in a country that they have a very sweet low tax deal"

 

A fairer world, when WE put principles before pounds, we make a long term plan to reduce our dependence on Chinese imports unless their record on human rights improves. We identify countries not complying with human rights legislation and stop trading. We stop selling jets and bombs to Arab countries that we know are bombing civilians.  Fanciful it may be, but if we were to apply the power of automation there would be little reason we can't become much more self sufficient manufacturing wise.  I hear the sighs 'it will never happen' . well we know for sure it will never happen if we don't start it. 

 

 

 

 

 

[jim_l]

1 hour ago, Nick - Joint North East AO said:

Have you seen their policies on Re-Nationalising some industries and other policies which effectively make them unelectable.

Having worked in the late 70's when we last had 3 day weeks, 15% mortgage rates, massive unrest and failing industries due to a whole raft of reasons but also wildcat strikes. The UK really  was the basket case of Europe economically and in so many other ways. There are still a lot of people who remember these days and never want to see them repeated and they will never vote for Corbyn. 

 

Yes Nick, totally agree, I was there, and this re-nationalisation idea is what I was referring to when I said 'a whole raft of poorly thought out, unrealistic and extremely expensive promises' 

 

[DonPeffers]

On 25/09/2019 at 16:02, DonPeffers said:

With Parliament having missed 3 sitting days (10-12 Sep inclusive, before the conference season) you might be tempted to think our MPs would be right into the task of sorting out a manageable Brexit they would vote through.....but NO: instead it seems like another episode of the drama 'The only way is Westminster' with shouting at each other more important. Of course the most important thing to many MPs is their image, photo opportunities and being seen on as many shows as possible; be it political or quiz shows.

 

 

Sep 27, 2019  "Brexit LIVE: After howls of outrage to URGENTLY recall Parliament they've all gone home"  https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1183330/Brexit-news-Boris-Johnson-EU-deal-no-deal-Brexit-latest-Juncker

 

After expensive legal cases to ensure Parliament can sit and do its essential work(?) the MPs had a day of yelling, no bills were passed, they cleared off at 5pm yesterday and won't be back until 2.30pm Monday 30 September.

 

You couldn't make it up.

[DonPeffers]

If the confusion relates to the link not providing the Headline I gave it seems the Daily Express has updated the article.

 

My point remains...the MPs insisted they must sit, then do nowt and clear off.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

Poor wee lambs can’t be expected to work a weekend. 

[AdamR]

Or a Friday afternoon 😱

[corsechris]

I don’t doubt they’ll all be making the most of the righteous indignation at the propagation, then followed by a few weeks of more righteous indignation at the language being used during said arguments. Basically, whatever it takes to make sure absolutely nothing useful gets done. Poxy useless Muppets every last one of them.

[Blatman]

21 hours ago, jim_l said:

It starts to become fairer as soon as we reverse the process of the poor becoming poorer whilst functioning as the engine by which the rich get stupidly rich, simply, a) higher wages, b)higher corporation taxes, c) higher taxes on the extremely wealthy, all putting more  money into the hands of government, which they can then invest in the country and take better care of the less fortunate.

Name one example where this has worked in any country in the world.

 

Higher taxes on the rich means they leave the UK. Witness the exodus when Labour were looking at 95% tax. Why did a lot of the rich move themselves and their businesses to tax havens? It's ridiculous. It still goes on but it's nowhere near as bad.

Higher corporation taxes likewise. Thatcher reduced corporate taxation rates and within a decade we had Honda, Toyota, Nissan and many many other global companies choosing to come to the UK and provide jobs and tax earnings to the government to pay for the less fortunate, and often in the deprived areas we want to champion like the north east and the midlands taking up the slack left by the demise of BL and the coal and shipping industries. Not everyone was happy of course but on the whole I think those areas have seen benefits that far outweighed the downsides. Hike up corporation tax and they'll disappear just as fast.

 

Higher wages are paid for how exactly? If companies increase their wage bill without raising the price of goods leaving the factory they have less profit. Profit is a good thing despite what the left would have you believe. It allows businesses to re-invest in the latest equipment or processes to improve efficiency or reduce emissions or whatever. Without that profit margin there is less money to keep the business going and and less corporation tax goes to the government so there is less money to help the disadvantaged. This is economics 101 and is why wage control is so important, especially since the 2008 crash but it has always been thus.

 

The wealthy employ a LOT of people. The wealth does actually trickle down. Where it gets tricky is that the least fortunate rely on tax from all of us to pay the government to then pay for least fortunate. You can see where the problem lies.

 

 

21 hours ago, jim_l said:

A fairer world, when WE put principles before pounds, we make a long term plan to reduce our dependence on Chinese imports unless their record on human rights improves. We identify countries not complying with human rights legislation and stop trading. We stop selling jets and bombs to Arab countries that we know are bombing civilians.  Fanciful it may be,

 

Cloud cuckoo land. Principles before pounds is laudible. Who wouldn't want that? But principles don't put food on the table, government funded or otherwise, nor do they pay wages.

Lets ask this question. Since the Chinese opened up to western trade has their human rights record improved, stayed the same or got worse? I would argue that it has improved. I'm not saying there isn't still a problem but as they learn to trade with other countries they can be encouraged to improve the lot of their citizens. And lets be clear, since opening up, even a little, the reporting of human rights abuses has increased so it could be argued that it seems to be not improving. But we have the same here when the government changes the way a particular crime is reported. Sometimes there seems to be a spike and we all think the problem is much worse that it used to be when in fact the reporting has improved and more information comes to light. These are all good things.