The Mental Health Thread

[Steve (sdh2903)]

2 hours ago, AdamR said:

Today is better but the feeling of 'being different', and the uneasy sensation this gives when your self-confidence isn't high enough to push it aside, remains bubbling away underneath.

 

We are all 'different' and that's what makes us human. Imagine a world where everyone had the same opinion. Same tastes. Same house. Same car.  Wouldn't be worth bothering with in my eyes.

 

Keep being 'different', its what makes you who you are and why your friends and family love you.

 

I've had some very differing views on the current situation aswell you're not alone.

[AdamR]

39 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said:

I'm afraid I did fight back, to the extent of physically assisting the doctors, and condemned my own mother to an additional six/seven months of tortuous living hell.

 

If I could take back that judgement call, I absolutely would.

 

I'm sorry to hear that is something you remember and regret, Dave. I think a lot of people in the same situation would have done exactly what you did, it's easy to come to a different decision with lots of thought after the event.

 

This is however one of the points I made when chatting with my mates - is this drive to keep people alive nature or nurture? My suggestion was that despite nature clearly defining that a species should attempt to expand as far and wide as possible for as long as possible, there is a significant amount of nurture going into these sorts of decisions. It is seen as taboo to discuss this sort of thing openly, and it's still a 'left field' opinion to allow people to die when they have no quality of life left. We are made to feel that we should subscribe to the notion of keeping people alive at all costs.

 

Skeptical head on: people are worth a lot more to GDP alive than dead. My research revealed that each person in the UK is 'worth' on average around £100k a year due to their consumption, borrowing, medical care requirement, etc (obviously the proportions of these amounts shift with age). Let a virus do as nature intended and wipe out the vulnerable, you have a lot of people in what my partner would call 'middle aged white man land' a lot worse off... Why else so much panic? We have already seen pollution drop over China. A cull of gigantic proportions would take a huge load off the planet, the looming issues from an aging population would ease social and medical care bills, plus more I can't think of right now. This is just nature fighting back...

 

You can probably see now why this opinion wasn't too popular!

 

 

Steve - great points and thanks for your response! 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

It's kind of one I share though Adam.

 

And believe me, currently having a sister two weeks into chemotherapy, with all the depressed immune system that brings, it's a reality that weighs heavy.

[Kingster]

9 minutes ago, AdamR said:

This is just nature fighting back...

Nature is on a loser though. In the early to mid 20th Century we lost many millions to Spanish Flu, two world wars and more than a few famines, yet our species continues to thrive and grow. 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

6 minutes ago, Chris King - Webmaster and Joint North East AO said:

Nature is on a loser though. In the early to mid 20th Century we lost many millions to Spanish Flu, two world wars and more than a few famines, yet our species continues to thrive and grow. 

 

Indeed, but does it thrive and grow because of, or despite events like that?

[Exitus]

5 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said:

Indeed, but does it thrive and grow because of, or despite events like that?

 

Oh, despite, absolutely. But that only goes to show just how resourceful and resilient we can be when we need to.

[Exitus]

49 minutes ago, AdamR said:

It is seen as taboo to discuss this sort of thing openly, and it's still a 'left field' opinion to allow people to die when they have no quality of life left.

 

I'm not sure that's the case. We started discussing with Dad and his doctors two years ago about what he wanted, and how far he wanted the treatment to go. It was always given to him as a perfectly acceptable option that he could stop as soon as the treatment wasn't worth it, and allow himself to die. Maybe it's taboo in 'polite society', but not when it really matters. 

 

Similarly, the night he died, we spent some time discussing options with the doctor, and he agreed that we were right to let him go. We were never made to think that we were wrong and should continue regardless. I think that the medical profession in general discuss this a lot. There are always going to be some who will treat regardless, but most are pragmatic these days. 

[CarbonWest - Chris Broster - Bristol & Bath AO]

Thanks for the timely update to this thread and @Jude - The Mad Widow I really hope you took the Yellow One out for a blast before you washed her and hence feel refreshed, I won't say Better as this may not be an option.  

 

@Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary and @AdamR I too had this with my Mum but as it was very fast (6 weeks diagnosis to end) she was very keen to maximise life and not let pesky Chemo get in the way - this we celebrated as part of her but also realised we didn't really 'Get it' until she had gone and then we missed  every second we had 'wasted'. This is somewhat repeating...

 

As to current situation, I am stuck between a rock and a hard place as my Dad 84 ticks all the boxes for CV19 high risk and my mother in law has terminal bowel and liver cancer - oh yes and I am a diabetic (with kids 2/5/19)...so now in the position of do I/don't I visit them in case I pass it on or leave them alone and worry they are lonely and missing some vital care element.

 

As to your question @AdamR, I think it is because we focus on keeping people alive and not making sure they can live!  As an aside, British Army is now focused on increasing the Health Span of personnel rather than Life Span, as someone who is healthy and can live a full life to 80/90 is more useful to the Army and a contributor Society than someone who starts to go 'downhill' from 40/50 and needs increasing care from 60-100 where they are a draw on Society.  Information, Education and Availability of resources are key to this as is a SHIFT in thinking and acceptability of end of life.

 

 

 

[Jude - The Mad Widow]

My daughters and myself made the decision to turn off Brians life support and stop all treatment. He was so badly burned he would have hated being alive. He would have had to stay covered, bit like Nikki Lauder. His hands were so bad he would have struggled ... he could never have sailed again which was his passion. I know he would thank me for turning his life off.  

 

When I was being treated for my own burns the nurse told me that some people cant let go and condemn their loved ones to a life of pain and disability, just because they couldnt let go.   We have to live with our decisions and we can only do our best then put it to bed and not beat ourselves up.  Without being too morbid I suggestion strongly that you discuss your own departure from this life with your family. I knew just what Brian wanted, his funeral, his ashes (the Straits of Gibralter!!) it really gives your loves ones a purpose when they will have lost all direction.  

Thats it, my Wez is clean and I am just off to spread my bugs through the back roads of Buckinghamshire for a few hours... pictures to follow.

[Exitus]

It's a horrible decision Jude, that I'd wish on nobody. You're right that you should discuss your wishes with your family. We were so lucky with Dad that we had some years to get used to the idea, and so we knew what he wanted. It made the decision so much less painful. 

 

Hope you enjoy the drive and the fresh air!

[Onliest Smeg David]

5 hours ago, AdamR said:

 

(The potential reasons I put forward were 'unconventional' to say the least - as I said I look at things from a scientific perspective.)

...

Today is better but the feeling of 'being different', ..........

This difference is good!

And what I most love about you.

 

I can also relate, having interests and views different to many of my friends.

I started early being the 'Onliest One' , being the only Punk in the village, then only Goth at Agriculture College (a place where conformity was the norm)

[Jude - The Mad Widow]

You are an AWESOME bunch of guys. If I didn't already have a Westfield I would get one just to be a. Among you. 

 

I used my new Auto Glym set to spruce up my car.. The ride out was.. Dare I say.. OK well almost... As good as sex! 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Mmm, shiny!

 

 

[jeff oakley]

Great new Jude, keep your chin up and it will pass.

 

Adam, you raised a very good point but it is one that a lot of people do not ever want to think about. My Father had dementia in his 80's and he fell out of bed breaking his hip. The Orthopedic surgeon told me he was going to fix it and then hopefully he would survive a bit longer. He lasted a few months more and only knew me in the end, he died full of morphine. We as a family would have been happy for nature to take it's course rather than waste money on an operation with no chance of an improvement in life.

 

It was societal pressure that makes people feel the need to try to keep people alive at any cost and for any length of time regardless of quality of life afterwards.

 

My Daughter is an anesthetics Dr in a large ITU unit, they have already had discussions about how to decide who lives and who dies if there is only one ventilator left. Is it the old person, otherwise healthy or the person who has smoked has COPD but has two kids? The multitude of options is so huge to be mind boggling. They are as well prepared as anyone could be not knowing how bad it will be but spare a thought for these people who will be living this nightmare on every shift, which will get longer if their colleagues get ill as well.

 

It is possible that ventilators will be turned off against families wishes in such circumstances and I for one am glad that I will never have to make that call and as it stands no one individual will but it will be hard for the public to understand.

 

This will test all our sensibilities and our resilience and to bring this back on topic, already we have seen the mental deterioration of a lot of people because someone on Facebook said toilet rolls are going to be short supplied. We now see shelves stripped bare and the vulnerable being tossed aside by some of the people who see this as the end of the world.

 

We need to look out for everyone who is vulnerable both physically, mentally and socially especially if the elderly are forced to be home alone, keep in touch and it will pass.

[Beaker_Bob]

I have been reading this thread, but up to now hadn’t felt I had the ability to post.  During 2017, the combination of significant pressures at work, my godson’s diagnosis with leukemia, the loss of a friend in a mountaineering accident and then finally at the end of the year the hardest decision to relive a very close family pet of their suffering led to ill health.  All that resulted in an attempt to go back to work in Jan 2018, only to crash and burn spectacularly.  I was diagnosed with severe depression, but through the support of my now wife, family, friends, colleagues and a clinical psychologist (a course of CBT), I made a good recovery and learnt some things about myself and ways to cope along the way.  It wasn’t something I would have voluntarily signed up to but looking now back there were positives from the process of recovery.

 

Roll forward to the current day and I find myself struggling again due to the Covid-19 epidemic.  My wife is an NHS doctor in Emergency Medicine (A&E), but also fits one of the vulnerable groups and is still working. My parents are both 70+ with some minor underlying health conditions.  They are all fit and well and following the advice as best they can, but that doesn’t change the fact they are vulnerable.  I have also been told to work from home for the foreseeable future; the work I can cope with, but the isolation is difficult.

 

The combination of the concerns I have for the ones I love; the isolation and the enormity of the current situation is making life difficult (overwhelming in fact) for me at the moment and I have had a particularly low weekend as a result of it.  It dominates my thoughts, prevents me from sleeping and makes me physically unwell. 

 

However, my experience from 2017/18 has taught me that I have already taken the first step in dealing with this, in that I have recognized it.  The next for me is to make some lifestyle changes (most of which come from my previous experience) and write them down, so here goes:

 

1.       Routine is important for me.  So, I have decided to reinstate my “commute” to the office.  Rise at the normal time, go for a walk for an hour, before arriving at my home “office”.  Same at the end of the day.

2.       Exercise to a decent sweat….!  I want to get back into running and release as many endorphins as possible, so 15km a week in 5km bursts!

3.       Avoiding overly alarming news.  The current situation is alarming, but many news outlets add considerable spin to this.  I have hidden posts from news outlets in my social media in a bid to look for more reputable and accurate news on my terms, not when FB/Twitter etc think I need to see it.

4.       Focus on what I can change, and not what might happen.  I can’t get rid of Covid, but I can make sure my wife eats well and has some exercise.  I can speak to my parents regularly and make sure that they have what they need.

 

I don’t know whether the above will work again in this situation, but it feels like a step in the right direction.  And although the above is personal to me, if I can help or inspire someone else, all to the good.

 

This is the first time I have written something like this in this context.  Apologies if it sounds a bit self-centered (although it’s a true reflection), I hope it may help others that might be experiencing similar feelings.

 

Look after yourselves.