Westfield Sport 250 advice

[Nick729]

In 2017 I purchased a complete Westfield FW special edition kit as gift to my grandfather for his retirement as a build project. Seeing as I am not from UK, I did not get the chance to test drive one or even see one in person. 

It was a fun build, looks great, but the performance was lacking.. or at least not what i expected

I have now sold the kit car with 2000 kms on the odometer and looking for something more nuts performance wise.

I am looking for a complete kit; Westfield Sport 250 is one of them, however there is little information about the kit; few articles and a video or 2.

Any feedback from owners or people who have test driven one? Anything that i should be made aware of? Any options that are best avoided?

 

Thank you!

[AdamR]

If you want nuts performance, have you considered a bike engined car?

The additional weight kills performance in these cars IMO.

[Nick729]

I am not aware of such complete kits. The engine in 250 is ~130kg as far as i am aware? Not much in terms of weight saving is possible and you would end up with a lot lower output.. Or am i missing something here?

 

 

[Kingster]

6 minutes ago, Nick729 said:

I am not aware of such complete kits. The engine in 250 is ~130kg as far as i am aware? Not much in terms of weight saving is possible and you would end up with a lot lower output.. Or am i missing something here?

A complete Ecoboost engine, gearbox and ancillaries will be over 100kg more than a bike engine (built in gearbox) and ancillaries. 

Typical sport 250 in touring guise maybe 650kg or more - typical BEC in track guise maybe 450kg or less

[Rednop1]

Bang for you buck bike power all the time but it has to be the 1000rr blade engine

Nick if you want to come a have a passanger ride in this it's fitted with a 2.0 ecoboost but done a slightly different to what the factory sell your more than welcome it's bl**** mental!

 

[Nick729]

Although tempting, I am interested in complete kit from factory, i don't have the time or more importantly the patience to research or the general understanding needed for fitting something else into the kit

Very nice looking Westfield! I am not from UK, thus it might be difficult. Thank you for the offer though!

The kit is a summer weekend fun car, that's why i need and want something nuts.

 

 

 

 

[Kingster]

In that case the sport 250 is (I believe) the only ‘complete’ kit from the factory that will maybe tick the box. 

But if you’ve built one before, then building one with a different engine shouldn’t be such a big challenge?

(edit) I say “maybe” because I have no idea of your definition of nuts! 

But by my definition @AdamR cbr1000 car will qualify - as will @Rednop1 above

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

I mightn't have misunderstood, but I think the previous kit was built by Nick's grandad, not Nick.

I didn't think the factory did bike engine cars anymore? Even in kit form?

So really, if you want a seriously high power Westfield, the factory options are the Sport 250 and the Mega S2000S - supercharged S2000 engined cars.

The one thing that does concern me though, is your comment on not being from the UK; where are you planning on using the car? If it's to be kept in this country, to use when you're over here, fantastic, you have a choice of anything the factory produces. However, if your plan is to take the car out of the UK, then you may be severely limited on the models you can choose, I'm afraid.

The Sport 250 does have approvals in quite a few foreign markets now, so you may be OK, otherwise, the Westfield with the widest range of approvals in other markets is the Sport Turbo, though that could be chip-tuned to boost the power, even that may not be acceptable in certain markets.

[Nick729]

The FW special edition was built by both of us, since the manual is in English and my grandfather does not understand English

Interestingly Caterham refused to sell their kit car outside of UK, that's how i ended up with a Westfield. Simon was very helpfull in arranging the delivery.

I am from Lithuania, but i drove it with temporary plates (ordered LHD kit), i am aware of how difficult it is to register any kit car in EU. The FW special edition did not come with any documentation just an invoice and some piece of paper stating the engine number and that it was sold new. I did have the option to register it properly, but it was around 5k eur for all the testing and certificates necessary for proper registration, but didn't bother.

As far as i am aware the only complete kits are; special edition which i had (with 2.0 zetec black top) and the sport 250 (focus st 2.0 ecoboost). All the other ones require engine and transmission and i do not want to get involved with used parts..

I was thinking of putting a supercharger kit on the special edition, but was surprised to learn that transmission would not hold even low boost setup of around 200-215bhp. That's how i ended up just listing the kit for sale and selling it (much to my surprise).

Edited April 21, 2019 by Nick729

[Paul T]

If I Was allowed to spend the money I’d personally build a Mega S2000 (NA Honda S2000 engine)

https://westfield-sportscars.co.uk/showroom-brochures/sport-kits-range/mega-s2000-kit/ (on track video here too)

If you’re concerned about the Powertrain I’m sure you could find a company who would source, refurbish and ship an engine and ‘box?

there is a good overview on YouTube for the 250 also

 

WF recently advertised that the 250 can be registered in Germany also, which is notoriously difficult for kit cars and custom builds.

good luck mate

[Nick729]

Registering is not really the issue here

Any particular reason why you would chose s2000 kit over Sport 250?

I might have a look into s2000, but i would much rather just have a complete kit with everything needed in a single order which is the sport 250

I was hoping for some feedback from those who have or drove the Sport 250 Issues, shortcomings, something to consider and so on.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Nick729

[Paul T]

It’s the engine - being an engine development engineer, the Honda F2XX is what I would call a ‘proper’ engine, it’s got loads of trick design features, which were ahead of it’s time  >9000rpm limit, massive specific output, forged pistons, really stiff bottom end design, still one of the highest output NA engines ever made (production) and in Westy terms it’s a relatively small package size and no complicated turbo system to weigh it down. Because of emissions and the need for efficiency, all mass-production engines will be turbocharged going forward, so ‘old-fashioned’, high output engines will be a thing of the past.

[Exitus]

Afternoon! We’ve had our Sport 250 on the road for a little under a year now, and we love it. 

It’s got a ridiculous amount of power, far more than you need most of the time. It isn’t half fun though, and enormously fast. 

Ours is set up for a mix of road and track use, so has a windscreen and carpets etc. Think it weighs about 650kg, so it’s by no means the lightest.

On the road, it’s effortless. You can effectively drive it in third gear.. starting in third is fine, and it’ll go to above road legal still in third. If you want a car to thrash on the road - up to the redline in every gear, making the most of every rev, the sport 250 isn’t the car for you. Full throttle is almost always too much for the road. That said, driving at less than 100% is still hugely enjoyable.

On track it’s brilliant, though the cooling isn’t quite up to the job. You can use all of the performance, though you’ve always got to be careful, and even on dodgy road tyres, we made pretty good progress. 

if you’ve got any questions, happy to answer them. There are a few of us on the forum with cars out and about. I think @AdgeC has had his on the road the longest, followed by @BugMan. Our build diary is Here if you want to see how the build went.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

8 minutes ago, Exitus said:

On the road, it’s effortless. You can effectively drive it in third gear.. starting in third is fine, and it’ll go to above road legal still in third. If you want a car to thrash on the road - up to the redline in every gear, making the most of every rev, the sport 250 isn’t the car for you. Full throttle is almost always too much for the road.

This is exactly it. Depends on what you want from the car. Cruiser or screamer. 

It will cruise around very sedately in 3rd or 4th  put your foot down and your at 3 figures before you know it (on track of course) on the road my car coped very well with cooling with a few tweaks to the system.

However if I was building a top end Westfield at north of 20k again I would also go s2000 based. These cars (all in my humble opinion) work best with a higher revving n/a engine. 

But as a high torque cruiser which can pick up its heels when required the s250 wins hands down.

[Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO]

I've a 250 in road going trim and love it. Picked up the kit end of Jan 2017, built IVA'd and registered on the road October 2017. Since done just over 6k miles in it, haven't stopped grinning. Done a couple of trips to France, and numerous trips in UK.

As Exitus says, if you want to scream up to the redline in every gear, it may not be the car for you. You can obviously do it, but with the amount of torque available from ~2 to 5.5k revs there's little benefit. I find it an easy car to drive, you can just poddle along in a high gear, put your foot down and go. Drop a gear and your off like a rocket!

I personally think the cooling system is at its limit. Having said that did 3 laps of the Le Mans circuit last year in 30 deg+ ambeint and it was ok, up to ~ 105deg doing 115 down the Mulsanne straight in a que of traffic. Ease off at the end, and temp. soon drops.

I've fitted a shallow sump since getting the car on the road. The original Focus one is too low and vulnerable IMHO. If I was starting again, I'd fit the shallower sump before installing the engine in the car.

Think like all things it's horses for courses, I wouldn't say the 250 is better than say a S2000, just different. Performance wise the 250 will go like hell if you want it to, traction can be a limiting feature, but that can be improved vastly by fitting more "performance oriented" tyres than the Toyo T1Rs supplied as standard. Conversely you can just potter round country lanes enjoying the fresh air, and if you're stuck behind something, overtaking can be achieved rapidly and instantaneously.

I wanted a kit with all new parts, the 250 was relatively new on the scene, and ticked all my boxes, no regrets at all.

Shout if you think I can help with more info.