Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 The 250 is a very good car; it good be a truly great one, it just needs a few final areas of development sorting out. in my eyes, and from what I can gather speaking to owners etc. It is absolutely desperately in need of either (the ecu) mapping specifically for the Westfield installation, or probably better, but undoubtedly dearer and more complex, an aftermarket ecu mapped specifically for the Westfield - it’s what transforms the Honda F20C engine when used in a Westfield, and the ‘250 needs that same treatment. This would also help towards some of the second point - Cooling, whether marginal or not, I couldn’t say, it does seem to be compromised though, in part by the Ford ecu set up, in part may be by engine spec as supplied by Ford. In part maybe rad/intercooler arrangement - though I know that’s an area the factory has definitely worked on. (It may well be on top of the other areas, too). It does appear from the members cars so far though, that more is needed to make the cooling bulletproof. Don’t let these considerations put you off though! Both are solvable, and if both were done well, I reckon the factory could have a truly iconic model on its hands. (Ok, maybe with a few other tweaks, fair enough ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick729 Posted April 21, 2019 Author Share Posted April 21, 2019 Wow, did not expect that many responses thank you very much! i think the turbo option is more suited for my kind of driving What is the sound like of the stock sport 250? Does it backfire? Does the 250 not have a programmable ecu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 It makes a surprisingly good exhaust noise. Kind of a normal 4 pot sound at part throttle but a raspy deep note at higher throttle. Plus all the turbo wooshy noises. No backfiring as the ECU keeps the fuelling correct. Standard ECU is a locked Ford/Bosch ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 My undestanding was that the Ford Racing ECU was technically mappable, but that the (very) few places capable of doing it in the UK charged so much, even just to connect up and look at it, that it wasn’t really viable for the average owner to have tweaks and “development” work done. As before though, please don’t take this to mean I think the mapping is faulty, per se. It’s just not mapped optimally for a small light weight car like a Westfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick729 Posted April 21, 2019 Author Share Posted April 21, 2019 I was certain that the ecu comes specifically mapped for westfield on sport 250. I think some review mentioned that the ecu has been modified to solve low speed drivability or smth like that... No chance getting anything done to ecu over here, nobody would even touch the omex that came with FW SE... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Was looking recently, appears the FordBosch ECU is no longer available. Ford performance website now quotes: An aftermarket engine control system is necessary to operate this engine. Be interested to have a chat with Mark at Stoneleigh to find out what WF are now supplying with the kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Dave is right. The supplied ECU has a torque increase over the stock focus ecu. But it dumps all the torque in down low. Great for cruising. Not ideal for wringing its neck as you just break traction. Speaking to Ford racing in the states say its possible to make changes to the ECU but I never found anyone in the UK who would/could do it and I only wanted the fan switching points changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Nick729 said: I was certain that the ecu comes specifically mapped for westfield on sport 250. I think some review mentioned that the ecu has been modified to solve low speed drivability or smth like that... No chance getting anything done to ecu over here, nobody would even touch the omex that came with FW SE... Bear in mind, this is the sort of thing that can change on a day to day basis, it certainly wasn’t mapped for Westfields, however, that could have changed or change in the future, so as good/useful as forums are for advice and help, you ALWAYS need to confirm the latest information with the manufacturer, in this case Westfield, as they will have the most up to date info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exitus Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Mine certainly backfires! Not all the time, but when hot it has been known. It properly roars at higher throttle opening. We were worried that it was going to sound a bit tame, but we’re not disappointed! The cooling is an interesting point. It doesn’t take much (new thermostat, new grille) to sort it for road use. Track use is another matter, hence our current oil cooler fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said: Bear in mind, this is the sort of thing that can change on a day to day basis, it certainly wasn’t mapped for Westfields, however, that could have changed or change in the future, so as good/useful as forums are for advice and help, you ALWAYS need to confirm the latest information with the manufacturer, in this case Westfield, as they will have the most up to date info. Particularly as it appears the Ford/Bosch Ecu is no longer available (see post above). Link to crate Ecoboost engine blurb: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-20T Yet to hear my car from outside, been told it sounds ok by others! Never had it backfire that I can recollect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BugMan Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 After talking to an engine tuner the supplied Ford Racing ECU is not thought to be mappable, but I have to say I can't really see the need for it to be fiddled with. Power is on-tap and its more about the driver than what the power plant can deliver in my experience. If your seriously looking for a single stop, supply all experience then the Sport 250 is what I would consider the best available. While the S2000 is undoubtable a fantastic engine and people have achieved all sorts of things from mapping ECU, Turbos and all sorts of silly power capabilities I was put off a bit by having to source your own engine etc, as I had always wanted an all-in-one package. Having a fantastic time in mine, the power deliver is fantastic, the roar of the pipe and the whistle from the turbo are all thoroughly addictive. I'm going through some personal **** in my life ATM, but a blast around Yorkshire yesterday and I feel so much better and more positive. On the down side No build manual yet as far as I know - been promised since Steve did the first 250 build, so he was the path setter and produced a great car, much of what he did the rest of us have followed. Temperatures - Right the car runs to hot IMHO, cruising around yesterday I was in the high 80's but normally runs mid to high 90's and have seen 105 in the early days (scarry). The factory will not acknowledge this, and most of us have followed Steve with a new T-Stat that opens a bit earlier (86 DegC I think) and a new wider grill.in the nose. Exitus is in the process of moving the batter from behind the rad/intercooler to the passenger footwell, and fitting an additional oil-cooler to try to reduce the running temp, which I'm watching wit interest. I've been told the engine is designed to run hot by Ford, so that the CAT is heated by the engine in the Ford cars to help it get through emissions, might be folk law, but kind of makes sense. Ground-clearance - right another thing the factory will not admit to, the supplied EcoBoost engine is under warranty from whoever they get them from, and so if you make any changes to the engine it voids the warranty, and this is why WF will not even admit it runs toooooo low. Raceline have a shallow sump advertised but it's still not available, with a minimum 6 weeks until expected delivery. The good thing about this sump is it takes into account the engine being tilted over by 10 Deg, and has an oil pickup cast into it. The bad nes is the cost, listed at about £425 https://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part_section.asp?categoryID=10 &SectionID=107 I was hoping to fit this but TBH even with my 250 being jacked up a further 50mm in the air from what WF suggest I'm still nervous as hell about grounding out the Ford sump, having had a massive bump on a speed ramp bump at our local Halfords. The alternative is the rout found by Steve and documented by AdgeC, and I've just literally order my sump from Power Torque today at £195 +P&P/VAT. If you go for the 4 pot brake upgrade they seem to squeak like hell at slow braking speed, some have looked at believing the leading edge of the shoes, copper grease and adhesive pads and I've yet to get to the bottom of this. If looking for a wet weather get I would not bother with the WF full hood, mine didn't fit and I think this relates to the higher than standard windscreen and rear roll bar, think the doors also don't take into account the higher windscreen as I'm still fiddling with mine a bit. Soft Bits For Sevens is the route most of us have taken. I built mine in about 9 months from the kit arriving and I took mine in 2 stages just for storage reasons, so that was an option for me, probably not if your outside of UK. Stated plate weight is 900Kg which I've been told is about 400BHP/Ton if that helps. The EcoBoost 2.0L is not that tune able as the 1600 which can easily top 300BHP as a friend of ours has done, and is widely used by the Caterham people with lots of options and up-grade available. At the end of the day it mostly about what you want out of the car. As an ex-biker I was initially drawn to the idea of a bike powered car, but the noise they make on full chat would just drive me mad, but then again I'm older and a bit wiser (in some things). Don't be fooled into thinking its a single cost either, you will find you need to budget for all sorts of things like paint, nuts and bolts, tools, fluids and a whole lot of hassle etc. I would suggest having a good read through the 250 build logs before you commit to anything and have a look at the extras you might want. On that sports seats - very comfortable Upgraded if noisy brakes - you want it to stop Tyers get the kit without the options from WF, buy and fit your own choice depending on what you want to do with the car LSD - essential, you will need it, digital Dash - Ecoboost heavily dependant on CAN buss - AIM dash, and cool as hell. If I had my choice again I'd probably go for the MSA rear cage over the standard one. Higher windscreen - worth it if tall'ish Wheels - get the wider wheels, more contact with ground needed Hope that helps, happy to answer Q's if you PM me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingster Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 38 minutes ago, BugMan said: Stated plate weight is 900Kg That’s nothing to do with actual weight mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 hour ago, BugMan said: Wheels - get the wider wheels, more contact with ground needed Only if you fit wider tyres. Standard 205s are actually below the min width for the 8" rears. Wider tyres not easy to come by in 15". So in effect your just fitting a heavier wider wheel for no benefit (I did it though!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Westwood - Westfield Sportscars Ltd Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Lets be honest the 8" rear wheel just looks better 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 45 minutes ago, Simon Westwood - Westfield Sportscars Ltd said: Lets be honest the 8" rear wheel just looks better Ok you got me there 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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