Covid Vaccine Poll

[CosKev]

12 hours ago, jeff oakley said:

Looking at two differing things Kev. The 17K are those who have died because they caught covid and then died of complications from it who were otherwise healthy.

 

That's what I said🤣

 

It's just a good comparison for healthy people to know about,as lots and lots of healthy people are now brain washed and scared to death by the MSM repeatedly reporting the 151k deaths day after day,without mentioning the vast majority of those deaths were obese or had under lying health issues.

 

 

 

 

[Kit Car Electronics]

We don't seem allowed by the media/govt to celebrate and recognise the efforts we can make to improve our own health and lower risks for ourselves. 4 years ago I had a nasty virus that led to a persistent chest infection which wouldn't clear with antibiotics - even leading to a CT scan. The respiratory consultant advised that I was 'overworked and under-exercised'.

 

I took up running, and 4 years later I feel younger than I did then - I've had minimal colds since, too.

 

[Steve (sdh2903)]

It's like the stat for hospital admissions that never seems to make the news. How many people are in hospital FOR covid vs how many WITH. I believe it's somewhere around 60/40.

 

4 minutes ago, Kit Car Electronics said:

We don't seem allowed by the media/govt to celebrate and recognise the efforts we can make to improve our own health

 

That's never going to happen when our illustrious party animal leader says "it's easier to take the booster than lose weight"

 

I mean seriously w. T. A. F. 

[jeff oakley]

54 minutes ago, CosKev said:

 

That's what I said🤣

 

It's just a good comparison for healthy people to know about,as lots and lots of healthy people are now brain washed and scared to death by the MSM repeatedly reporting the 151k deaths day after day,without mentioning the vast majority of those deaths were obese or had under lying health issues.

 

 

 

 

Sorry Kev misunderstood your intention. 

 

People who had underlying issues clearly were at risk, but many of these were not life threatening on their own. Being overweight can lead to a shorter life but many obese do live to old age unaffected. Asthma on its own unlikely to kill the vast majority, prior to Covid it was less than 1000 in the UK per year, throw in Covid and that has shot up as their respiratory system cannot cope.

 

We had too many "experts spouting Armageddon which they will claim it is their job to give worst case scenarios but it undermines the current message when they were so wrong before.

 

We are coming out of this and I think this will be the last year for restrictions here unless something changes.

 

But for me is a bigger concern  that if there is another pandemic, with a death rate much higher and more severe, how will the public react next time? Will we all want to take our chances or disbelieve the prophets of doom next time.

 

Without going into politics, every party has members who broke rules, even professor lockdown broke them to have a *******, Cummings went to get his eyesight tested and is now trying to finish Boris off for drinking in the garden. The queen stuck to them when burying the Duke but why should we if those who set the rules ignore them. 

 

only time will tell

[CosKev]

17 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

It's like the stat for hospital admissions that never seems to make the news. How many people are in hospital FOR covid vs how many WITH. I believe it's somewhere around 60/40.

 

Yeah they should split the case numbers,admissions into hospital to be treated for covid compared to total hospital cases of covid.

Not sure recently but few months ago it was a quarter of people being treated in hospital for covid caught it in the hospital,so were not admitted with it.

[jim_l]

3 hours ago, jeff oakley said:

It's just a good comparison for healthy people to know about,as lots and lots of healthy people are now brain washed and scared to death by the MSM repeatedly reporting the 151k deaths day after day,without mentioning the vast majority of those deaths were obese or had under lying health issues.

It has been widely known since the start of the pandemic that Covid mostly affects people with underlying health issues, I don't know anyone that doesn't know this.  If they wanted to scare people, they would be using the 175,000 figure, which is the number of death certificates on which Covid 19 is mentioned. 

 

As it happens the 151.000 figure is about right for 'Covid being the underlying cause of death' as opposed to being 'a contributing factor' meaning, people that would not have died in the absence of Covid. 

 

It is important to understand that these 'people with underlying conditions' are not a small section of the population tucked away somewhere, it is MOST of the adult population.

 

Anyone with any of the following is at increased risk: heart disease (7 million) Diabetes (5.4 million) Asthma (5.4 million, including a million children) Cancer survivors (millions) Other lung diseases, arthritis, transplants, fibrosis, hypertension, stroke, dementia, HIV, kidney or liver disease. Add in 14 million obese people.

 

The very existence of the NHS fills the population with people with underlying diseases, by making sure the first thing that makes you sick doesn’t kill you.  Surviving underlying disease is what differentiates us from the countries in Africa where life expectancy hasn’t made 60 yet.

 

It is also important to not just focus on deaths, how many survivors will have their lives adversely affected by this disease, damage that may not come to light for decades?  As an example, we are seeing it now, an apparent increase incidence of heart damage in athletes.  Of course, the antivax community reach out and link this to the vaccines, but any research at all will find you the historic and Covid specific links between Viruses and Heart damage.

 

So, it comes to light in athletes, they are monitored closely and push their hearts to the limit, but how long until we know the consequences of mild to moderate Covid in ordinary citizens, do they fully recover, or is there lasting damage? 

 

“Researchers in Germany examined data from 100 patients thought to have recovered based on a negative nasal swab. Two to 3 months after their COVID-19 diagnosis, 60 of the individuals had indications of myocardial inflammation on CMR…”

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jeff oakley]

Jim, the bit quoted was not mine.

 

As for the rest, the problem is that people are unaware of what you have quoted. They see underlying issues and do not have a clue just what that means.

 

However at the beginning of the pandemic, death certificates were not as accurate as they were prior, this was due to autopsy's not being done due to pressure . This is why Covid was put when in some cases it was not accurate. This has changed and is why the enquiry will look at these sort of issues.

 

As for your point about long term damage, you are correct, many who survived have long term issues now including heart but mainly lung issues. It is not uncommon for lung capacity to be severely compromised in many who were intubated. 

 

equally you are also correct in the way things are being manipulated by those who get their knowledge from facebook etc where they selectivly quote random "experts". One such one was an increase in still births in vaccinated mothers, again not true but quoted widely as fact which lead to many pregnant women not having the vaccine but what has been fact is that birth weight in mothers who got Covid declined.

 

Social media is awash with rubbish and when you get a DR saying he does not believe in the need for him to be vaccinated, to Javid, then social media exploded with him the new high priest to follow.

 

We will never convince some as they are beyond help.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

7 minutes ago, jeff oakley said:

We will never convince some as they are beyond help.

 

Would you categorise that doctor in the same manner?

[MR.C]

For me Jeff this is over,good luck to anybody who is still affected by COVID itself

Or by the draw of something in their life to talk about.

 

 

[jeff oakley]

36 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

 

Would you categorise that doctor in the same manner?

Well for me the reaction he has got from his peers would suggest he is wrong in the way he went about it. As a young fit man with no other health issues he probably has had covid and survived. To go on to say the science is not good enough when all the science says otherwise seems at odds with the job he does.

 

He has stated he is not anti vax and supports its use for those who would benefit from it, it is the definition that he is at odds with as to who benefits.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

6 minutes ago, jeff oakley said:

suggest he is wrong in the way he went about it.

 

I'd agree with that bit. Maybe he had raised his concerns through his management and been rebuffed and took his chance to raise it with Javid. 

 

Going back to your earlier post about being a high priest to anti vaxxers. I'd say that there is also the same vitriolic response from the other side basically rubbishing him. 

 

10 minutes ago, jeff oakley said:

He has stated he is not anti vax and supports its use for those who would benefit from it

 

I think he's spot on with that. Especially now with omicron which is proven to be weaker, I think his case is strengthened further. And yet they are still pushing boosters for teens? 

[Steve (sdh2903)]

5 hours ago, jim_l said:

 

“Researchers in Germany examined data from 100 patients thought to have recovered based on a negative nasal swab. Two to 3 months after their COVID-19 diagnosis, 60 of the individuals had indications of myocardial inflammation on CMR…”

 

 

@jim_l just out of curiosity in that research does it differentiate between unvaccinated/vaccinated? Just with myocarditis being reported as a vaccine side effect as well. Especially in younger men.

[CosKev]

6 hours ago, jim_l said:

As an example, we are seeing it now, an apparent increase incidence of heart damage in athletes.  Of course, the antivax community reach out and link this to the vaccines, but any research at all will find you the historic and Covid specific links between Viruses and Heart damage

 

So all those athletes have had covid?

[jim_l]

1 hour ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

@jim_l just out of curiosity in that research does it differentiate between unvaccinated/vaccinated? Just with myocarditis being reported as a vaccine side effect as well. Especially in younger men.

 

The study (and others from Wuhan drawing the same conclusion) predate extensive vaccine use, we have known for a hundred years that viruses cause chronic illness , there is a much researched thing called 'viral myocarditis' similar with 'viral arthritis' the list is long... Type this expression into your search engine 'List of chronic diseases linked to infectious pathogens'

 

The incidence of myocarditis linked to vaccinations is a handful in every 100,000. There are a hundred articles out there , from Harvard to the Lancet to the BMJ to John Hopkins to the British Heart Foundation etc.  Etc, they all read something like this...

 

"Our findings suggest that COVID-19 is a risk factor for acute myocardial infarction and ischaemic stroke. This indicates that acute myocardial infarction and ischaemic stroke represent a part of the clinical picture of COVID-19, and highlights the need for vaccination against COVID-19" 

 

"The involvement of cardiac factors was recognized early in the pandemic in reports from China. A retrospective analysis of 187 patients treated in a Wuhan hospital between January 23 and February 23, 2020, found that 35% had existing cardiovascular comorbidities such as hypertension, coronary disease, and cardiomyopathy, and 28% exhibited myocardial injury"

 

"A retrospective case series from Italy presented results from 1,591 critically ill patients with COVID-19 who were admitted to the intensive care unit (ICU): 49% of patients had hypertension, 21% had cardiovascular disease"

 

"Heart failure has been well described in patients with pneumonia, and now multiple studies have shown an association between heart failure and COVID-19. In a case series of 21 severely ill patients with COVID-19 in an ICU, one-third developed new-onset cardiomyopathy" 

 

Human coronavirus-associated myocarditis is known, and a number of coronavirus disease 19 (COVID-19)–related myocarditis cases have been reported. The pathophysiology of COVID-19–related myocarditis is thought to be a combination of direct viral injury and cardiac damage due to the host’s immune response"

 

 

The truth it is out there, you just need to want to see it. 

[Steve (sdh2903)]

53 minutes ago, jim_l said:

The incidence of myocarditis linked to vaccinations is a handful in every 100,000

 

Not disputed.

 

And it's difficult to compare then with now as we've gone through beta delta and now into omicron. But as its been widely accepted omicron is less severe than the original strain. Could it not also be said present day myocardial issues linked to covid are a handful in every 100,000? 

 

Surely studies based on a far more deadly strain can't just be automatically deemed as valid against the current dominant strains?

 

 

53 minutes ago, jim_l said:

The truth it is out there, you just need to want to see it. 

 

Absolutely.