Steve (sdh2903) Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 21 minutes ago, jim_l said: I know I am testing two or three times weekly with the approach of Christmas and the ready availability of tests I find that point interesting. So even though I assume you have no symptoms and are fit and well, you are taking multiple tests a week partly because tests are so readily available? Or is it a work requirement? Not having a dig. Just a genuine question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said: I find that point interesting. So even though I assume you have no symptoms and are fit and well, you are taking multiple tests a week partly because tests are so readily available? Not having a dig. Just a genuine question. Currently, as the last few weeks have seen the usual multiple jobs across multiple sites needing last bits of attention before Christmas, I've been testing every Saturday, as a general test, then every morning before setting out to a "new" site/different client. This is regardless of symptoms, as with the usual annual colds etc going around, it's hard to rely on preliminary symptoms till it's too late, if you see what I mean. It's just part of a minimise risk strategy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 hour ago, jeff oakley said: If it stays as it is no need for action other than to encourage vaccine uptake, which will help now and in the future as variants develop. In the interests of constant self-questioning I'd be really interested to know your thought process behind this standpoint Jeff, if you're willing to elaborate. Perhaps others (such as me, I have just identified!) are thinking more about the 'now' than the future, and you have something important to contribute that would help inform a decision to take up the jabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_l Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Steve (sdh2903) said: I find that point interesting. So even though I assume you have no symptoms and are fit and well, you are taking multiple tests a week partly because tests are so readily available? The only way to confidently keep up my social life and see my family, one daughter is immunocompromised, as is their mum (lung transplant patient) For their mum I suspect Covid would signal the end. Early Dec. I had a two or three hour conversation with a mate that the next day was symptomatic and positive. Too close a call that, two transmissions from putting someone's life at serious risk. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 24 minutes ago, jim_l said: I am conscious that we are having a fairly protracted discussion here and, in the past, we have been asked to ‘rein it in’. Officially speaking, we've not received any messages to say anyone is struggling/having problems with the thread. Personally speaking, thank goodness, we've seen very little of the "sheep" posts, which are pretty much a red flag to cause trouble. The debate has been calm, reasoned and most have tried to keep it as factual as possible, and the emotive and political sides, largely steered away from. This has helped massively. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, jim_l said: one daughter is immunocompromised, as is their mum (lung transplant patient) For their mum I suspect Covid would signal the end. This is a very important statement. My sisters the same, being infected would probably kill her. Regardless of vaccinated or not, it really flabbergasts me to see so many people selfishly 'breath on others' with lack of face masks to reduce spread of covid (especially in shops) To my mind, more than vaccination, the key to reduce infections is masks & testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Onliest Smeg (David Richings) said: key to reduce infections is masks and testing That's a whole new debate all by itself! Living in Scotland where masks have never gone away the rates of Infection have not been any better than in England where masks were dropped. Same could be said for vaccine passports. Might be a different story if all masks were of a decent grade, worn correctly and replaced when required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 48 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said: I find that point interesting. So even though I assume you have no symptoms and are fit and well, you are taking multiple tests a week partly because tests are so readily available? Or is it a work requirement? Not having a dig. Just a genuine question. I know quite a few people who are being tested thrice weekly at work. The work cannot be done remotely so people have to attend their workplace and in some cases, more than one workplace. The employer cannot place restrictions on peoples personal lives so whilst we all hope that folks are being sensible the risk of infection is very real. The employers have a duty of care to do all they can to protect their employees and really that leaves only one option. Frequent testing. Early detection of an on-site infection is key. The employer I am thinking about pays a LOT to ensure that tests (PCR) administered at 10am have results returned by 3pm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Steve (sdh2903) said: Might be a different story if all masks were of a decent grade, worn correctly and replaced when required. Aye, that tells a whole story, doesn't it! The number of people I see wearing masks over their mouth, but not their noses.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said: Might be a different story if all masks were of a decent grade, worn correctly and replaced when required. Yeah people wearing masks round their chins or not covering their noses irritate the hell out of me and I usually say something if they also fail to stay two meters away from me. I live in London so I'm "talking to" complete strangers quite a lot, something we Londoners don't usually do... And of course in all this, irrespective of us making informed choices, Government has to consider "lowest common denominator" activity which we all see far too much of these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 hour ago, CosKev said: Wonder if ITV will be pulled up for that last night then😳 They stated it was breaking news within the last hour🤷🏾♂️ Well, it is news. The reporting is inaccurate, which common but how many news viewers will take the time to find out for themselves? I'm betting that number is mathematically insignificant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said: The number of people I see wearing masks over their mouth, but not their noses.. One of the funniest / saddest things I've ever seen, from last year: person stood with mask pulled down over their chin, puffing away on a cigarette! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 43 minutes ago, Blatman said: Well, it is news. The reporting is inaccurate, which common but how many news viewers will take the time to find out for themselves? I'm betting that number is mathematically insignificant... Finding it tricky to word this... I agree entirely with the above. So, where does that lead us in relation to everything we are being been told related to the current worldwide virus issue? I am as 'guilty' as anyone of listening to what is being reported, and only questioning it a very small portion of the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_l Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 5 hours ago, AdamR said: This is Pfizer's own report and listed as confidential so we can assume it is for internal use. I think this adds weight to the contents, as it is not being presented for the outside world - but may be wrong. - Within 42000 'yellow card' reports, there were: Recovered/Recovering: 19582 (46%) Recovered with sequelae (long term side effects not expected to clear up): 520 (1.2% - not much less than long Covid) Not recovered at the time of report (study length was 2 months): 11361 (27% - much higher than long Covid) This is a bit I think you need to revisit Adam. The percentages you are quoting here are percentages of the 42,000 yellow cards, not percentages of people vaccinated. You would need put these numbers alongside numbers vaccinated in order to assess vaccine risk wouldn't you? So - for example, Recovered with sequelae (long term side effects not expected to clear up): would be 520 as a percentage of the billions that have been vaccinated, not 520 as a percentage of 42,000? That would affect your transposition of the same categories and percentages to the UK data too. ...I think..put me right if I have misunderstood, which happens (much more often than it used to) The bottom of the report identifies the FDA and CBER so would suggest at least that it wasn't an internal secret. If it was and it got out the FDA would be right in there with a thing called a consent decree, literally send outside consultants in to oversee the running of the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 hour ago, AdamR said: In the interests of constant self-questioning I'd be really interested to know your thought process behind this standpoint Jeff, if you're willing to elaborate. Perhaps others (such as me, I have just identified!) are thinking more about the 'now' than the future, and you have something important to contribute that would help inform a decision to take up the jabs. To my mind Adam it it simple. You may be a 100% fit person with a first class immune system with no known health issues. If you get Covid chances are you will recover. There is however a chance that you have some as un yet predetermined gene that makes you more susceptible to suffering more than others. As others will say the risk of a adverse reaction to the vaccine is real but tiny in any study, so small as to make it not worth considering. What is fact is those who are vaccinated recover quicker and better than those who are not. Yes you would need to go through all the data as clearly the older you are the more likely you are to have problems. A young fit sportsman will have great lung capacity and older person will not. For myself, I saw the amount of cash and top class minds being thrown at this subject. Sharing data has been unprecedented between the worlds top scientific labs to come up with treatments. It was explained to me that the way the vaccine has been added to an existing delivery system cuts months off the research ( this was by a friend of Charlottes who works in the area). This all meant that the time between testing and launch could be slashed as shared info made it possible. I would recommend the vaccine to all but unfortunately too much misinformation is out there to stop the "yes whataboutism" All my family have had them, we have not had Covid. My Daughter who is working with Covid patients has not had it but picture below how she dresses at work. She has described to me the reality of a Covid death on the patient and family so it is hard for me not to recommend it for all dispassionately. Even without her knowledge and in put I am happy with advise from others like Whitty even though they over react. Only you can chose, balance up the probability of your situation, balance up the real chance of vaccine passports stopping travel in the future as other countries are worse than we are and future curbs and then chose. As others have said I know anti vaxxers, they are still my friends and I hope they will still be afterwards, shouting at each other does nothing, pity politicians in the house have yet to realise that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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