Covid Vaccine Poll

[KugaWestie]

20 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

If you had 2 x AZ you get 1 x mod or Pfizer as a booster.

AZ has not been approved for booster use, so all boosters are Moderna or Pfizer 

[Richard (OldStager)]

Yeah I was just coming from the point of view of two AZ’s then Pfizer and wether the total levels 

were the same as 3 pfizers

I don’t know.

[jeff oakley]

I know it does seem against the news but we have made huge strides in getting back to normal. At the moment in Charlottes ward they are full in ITU and all but one are unvaccinated. Some of these will sadly not make it.

 

The NHS doom mongers are afraid that with the normal winter pressure, which happens every year, if this new variant gives a similar ratio of hospitalisations as before they will be swamped. This is why the government is being bounced towards another lockdown. Remember the flack they were getting for not locking down and stopping flights, they cannot win as someone will say they got it wrong.

 

So far it appears the news is better as cases are climbing, which is possibly due to more testing but hospital admissions are not going up at the same rate.

 

Vaccinate people still get Covid, in exactly the same way as they can get the flu after a flu jab, but they are keeping out of hospital and getting well at home.

 

What I hadn't realised is many of those who have ended up in ITU and survive, do so with a much lessened volume in airway capacity so longer term they will have more issues.

 

I am not an advocate of mandatory vaccination for the population we should have made a better case so those who feel they do not want it are shown the facts. Today Charlotte was having her hair done where the young stylist was discussing the vaccines the lock down etc. She did not know Charlottes job so was regaling her with tales of the vaccine causing blood clots pregnancy issues etc. When asked what her friend did and where she got her information from, it was the internet and she was another hairdresser.

 

Charlotte explained what her job was, how the vaccine worked, known risks and how she had not seen any of these issues in her wards or heard of any at the hospitals she covers, there will have been some but not causing ITU admissions.

 

The bit the got me from the conversation was when Charlotte explained that as she is an anaesthetics Dr who puts people into induced comas she is the last person many people see before they die. She has had too many of those this last year or so to deal with and some would not have died had they been vaccinated.

 

We will get through this but we have to stay the course. Personally I think anther lockdown will happen as the pressure to do one is so great from so many experts.

 

Take reasonable precautions and enjoy Christmas as normal.

 

 

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

37 minutes ago, OldStager said:

Yeah I was just coming from the point of view of two AZ’s then Pfizer and wether the total levels 

were the same as 3 pfizers

I don’t know.

I seem to remember hearing that 2xAZ + 1xPfizer was optimum. Could be propaganda though...

[Steve (sdh2903)]

2 hours ago, CosKev said:

 

90%😏

 

The Astra Zeneca double jabbed are down at 40% protection, hence they don't use it anymore.

 

Pfizer is just over 60% double jabbed.

 

Which is why surely there has to be a new approach to this new variant. We can't keep having more jabs everytime a variant or surge happens?

 

The data from South Africa shows the best reaction to omicron was from those with natural immunity. So keep boosting those who want it, the vulnerable and those with underlying and leave the rest to gain some resistance without relying on medication?

 

There also needs to be a review of the self isolation rules. Several people I know from work, and other friends who've tested positive and had symptoms have cleared cold like symptoms  and are testing negative by day 3 or 4 yet are unable to return to work for another week! This will be putting more strain on the NHS than omicron admissions.

 

15 hours ago, AdamR said:

we'll skip over the flawed reporting

 

This is what's had my wee simmering lately.

 

Sensationalist headlines reporting record "surges" of cases. Yet fail to mention there has been a surge in testing to match. For instance this weekend 90k cases from 1.6m tests. So around 6 percent positivity rate.

 

A month ago we were doing 700k tests a day with 35k cases, so 5%. Hardly the apocalypse that the press are reporting? Deaths are actually falling and although admissions are creeping up not steeply and also people are not remaining in hospital as long so the pressure is not as sustained.

 

Why does none of this "better" news make the headlines? Has it become policy to scare the living bejezus out of people?

 

Also I read an interview with the chairman of the SAGE modelling group yesterday. The models that they have produced are all based on Delta. They have not produced best or worst cases based on omicron data from around the world. So their models are based on a previously more severe strain crossed with the fact omicron transmits easier. No wonder the graphs look scary!! Why? They've produced the models they were asked to.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

45 minutes ago, jeff oakley said:

At the moment in Charlottes ward they are full in ITU and all but one are unvaccinated

 

This does not reflect the national statistics though. Which show a much more even number or even more vaccinated people. Which you'd expect with the age profile of serious illness.

 

One of the saddest things I've seen over the past few months is the number of "celebrities" on TV stating how selfish the unvaccinated are. There was another rugby player just yesterday at it. How they arent protecting their loved ones etc. Its disgraceful misinformation and marginalising a number of the population. Yes some believe that the jab is the root of all evil and full of nanobots but there is a decent chunk who've read the data and made a choice based on their circumstances. (And I'm double jabbed)

[MR.C]

Wow, sense at last.

Thankyou Steve for throwing a bit of reality on the situation.

 

[jeff oakley]

37 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

 

This does not reflect the national statistics though. Which show a much more even number or even more vaccinated people. Which you'd expect with the age profile of serious illness.

 

One of the saddest things I've seen over the past few months is the number of "celebrities" on TV stating how selfish the unvaccinated are. There was another rugby player just yesterday at it. How they arent protecting their loved ones etc. Its disgraceful misinformation and marginalising a number of the population. Yes some believe that the jab is the root of all evil and full of nanobots but there is a decent chunk who've read the data and made a choice based on their circumstances. (And I'm double jabbed)

 

Hi Steve,

 

We are talking about two different things. ITU take people in who are so ill that they have to kept alive in many cases by artificial means. ITU admissions in the hospitals she mans are higher in the unvaccinated.

 

Not sure where you are getting your statistics from but as always they can be read several ways anyway where ever they come from.

There is a government report that has a lot of statistics Covid 19 wk 49 is the latest. This shows how many unvaccinated have died against vaccinated and by age group. This is where they have tested positive in the last 28 day. As you would expect  the report shows deaths in vaccinated are higher, however over 80 year old was the biggest group and that descended by age group. As more of the population is vaccinated that is to be expected, what as always it does not actually say they died from it which is wrong as that is then open to speculation.

 

I agree with the testing, we have lost many hours of work, staff have lost money due to self isolation and they are changing and have changed things for the better but too slow.

 

As I said we should have had open discussions, much of the "facts" people claim to justify not having the vaccine are from sources not peer reviewed or from people who simply do not trust dug companies. This was made worse by companies being given protection from law suites which fuelled conspiracy sites.

 

There is no doubt from any of the scientific papers from around the world the vaccines are safe and effective and their use encouraged. People should make their own decisions but as it is now there are countries around the world that are insisting on vaccination before we can travel there. This will impact upon people without us imposing vaccine passports 

 

It is why Whitty putting up endless slides to my mind is counter productive as 

[MR.C]

"we don't now much about omicron, but what we do know is bad"

You do not make statements like that to a nation, unless you are  imposing fear.

[CosKev]

30 minutes ago, jeff oakley said:

There is no doubt from any of the scientific papers from around the world the vaccines are safe and effective and their use encouraged.

 

Hardly safe,have you seen the amount of deaths and adverse reactions listed?

 

I personally know a 42 year old very fit boxer that has now lost a third of his hearts capacity due to a reaction to his first vaccine, fell ill within hours of having it and spent 8 weeks in hospital fighting for his life.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

21 minutes ago, jeff oakley said:

Not sure where you are getting your statistics from but as always they can be read several ways anyway where ever they come from.

 

Hi Jeff.

 

Yes apologies I was referring to "patients being admitted for emergency care". I've seen the document you are referring to. And it even has a footnote to say that the stats against the unvaccinated are not easy to determine due to the hugely larger proportion of those vaccinated. There doesn't seem to be a specific chart for ITU. 

 

23 minutes ago, jeff oakley said:

There is no doubt from any of the scientific papers from around the world the vaccines are safe and effective and their use encouraged.

 

Safe? Yes. But not 100% safe so not possible to say there's no doubt. Only a lot of time will determine that. A lot of people are having adverse reactions that don't seem to get the coverage it deserves.

 

I'm no health care professional and don't claim to know it all. However I find it a complete disgrace how the government and media are cherry picking the actual "facts" that they are putting out there. There are people out there who are genuinely **** scared of covid, despite being triple jabbed and fit and healthy.

 

For instance the first week of omicron it was "it evades the vaccine" a week later it was "get another jab" laughable really if it wasn't so sad.

 

 

[corsechris]

7 minutes ago, CosKev said:

 

Hardly safe,have you seen the amount of deaths and adverse reactions listed?

 

I personally know a 42 year old very fit boxer that has now lost a third of his hearts capacity due to a reaction to his first vaccine, fell ill within hours if having it and spent 8 weeks in hospital fighting for his life.

And how would he have reacted to a Covid infection then? Nobody knows, but the statistics bear out the assertion that on balance, the vaccine is orders of magnitude safer than catching the virus unvaccinated.

 

There are always going to be individual cases but this is a numbers game. The trouble comes when you know the face behind the number.

 

[MR.C]

You keep taking the jabs,I'll keep taking my chances.

[jeff oakley]

52 minutes ago, CosKev said:

 

Hardly safe,have you seen the amount of deaths and adverse reactions listed?

 

I personally know a 42 year old very fit boxer that has now lost a third of his hearts capacity due to a reaction to his first vaccine, fell ill within hours of having it and spent 8 weeks in hospital fighting for his life.

Sorry to hear about the case you mention, however without having more details and only his cardiologist will know is did he have an underlying issue? Many sports men have died after suffering heart issues on the sports field without the vaccine. We simply do not know and I suspect others do not yet. It is easy to see why people would jump to that conclusion

 

In the UK there has been around 126million vaccines administered and at this moment there are 1600 deaths reported after having the vaccine. Once again without the full autopsy and the deceased health records it is hard to concluded what caused the death. That is not to undermine any loss of life but in the scheme of things that is very small and once the data has been crunched I will be surprised if the actual cause is the vaccine in more than a handful.

 

There has been over 8.6 billion vaccines administered so far around the world and all countries are monitoring the side affects, blood clotting (which you get with Covid anyway) arterial damage are reported and as far as I can see there is more transparency worldwide with this than any other medicine in history.

 

It is up to the individual choice, governments have to do what they believe is right for the majority. Personally I have gone about life, eaten out gone to the cinema and the theatre and am happy now with my level of protection, if others chose not to then fine but if the majority supported passports for big venues etc then they will miss out on somethings.

 

We all want an end to this

 

 

[corsechris]

19 minutes ago, MR.C said:

You keep taking the jabs,I'll keep taking my chances.

Happily. I'm more than willing to take the advice of the medical profession.

 

It puzzles me that folk who refuse the vaccine are more than keen to get medical attention from the exact same place that was offering the vaccine in the first place. What makes them think there’s a difference between the two things?

 

Here’s a challenge for those who refuse a vaccine - next time you’re ill, sort yourself out. After all, you clearly don’t trust healthcare.