Steve (sdh2903) Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, OldStager said: I said the other day I feel for those that are financially affected I really do, but I fail to see why risking lives and more cases of long covid benefits anyone. And what about risking millions of people's jobs if lockdowns return? Will that not cause far more long term damage? I really feel for those who are in a position where covid will seriously harm them. Or for those who cannot have the vaccine. Or for those who have had their mental health affected and are now scared beyond belief of venturing out. But for the vast majority this virus does not do long term harm. In fact a third of people who've had covid don't even realise they've had it. Which means in reality that figure will be much much higher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard (OldStager) Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 It would appear that what ever personal circumstance you find yourself in you will either agree or disagree with the Gov's experiment I will duck out of this convo now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 hours ago, OldStager said: It would appear that what ever personal circumstance you find yourself in you will either agree or disagree with the Gov's experiment I will duck out of this convo now. There is a third way. Personally I neither agree or disagree with the government position on ending lockdown because I have no idea (just like 100% of scientists and governments) if it's a good idea or not. I'm not so "politically motivated" that I base my agreement or opposition to a decision based solely on the colour of the flag behind the mouthpiece. What I do know is that the science behind avoiding catching something is much older than 18 months yet the non-believers seem to be hell bent on denying even that fundamental knowledge. Me, I'll keep wearing a mask in shops, try to avoid crowded places (LOL, I live in London...) and wash my hands or sanitize them when appopriate. And I've been double jabbed for coming up 6 weeks now. But without a blood test I have no idea if I'm one of the 90% or one of the 10% and basing that risk assessment on a political desision is possibly one of the most ridiculous things I can imagine. Politicians have to put politics in there. It's their job. My job is to keep myself and those around me safe. I'm not sure how blindly supporting or rejecting a political decision would help... But for businesses who have legal hurdles, not least of which is a duty of care to both employees and customers this situation must be almost impossible. Some will be able to adapt, some, notably leisure industries, may have enormous difficulties. Telling "us" to exericise free will in choosing doesn't remove those responsibilities from businesses so for those who cannot adapt this is not the good news that many people think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR.C Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Its all over and nobody is interested? "Nothing funny as folk" so the saying goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingster Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 1 hour ago, MR.C said: Its all over 🤣🤣🤣 yeah… right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamperMan Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 On the vaccine pole…. Had both of mine. The first I felt very strange. Heart pumping very slow and very hard.. hot hot hot.. and I was more forgetful/confused . Second one was followed by mountain biking and beer… then the next eventing was spent at a beer garden so to be honest I can’t separating hangover from Side effects. An observation is that I’ve actually “suffered” hay-fever this year. Increasing a week after the first jab… not just as feeling light itchy eyes and some sneezing. To proper itchy eyes, full on nose flow and sneezing. I know pollen has been high but it has been on Other years too. And again 1 week after my second jab this hay fever took a notch up again! …. I think the vaccine has excited my immune system and now actually have full on hay-fever. Hopefully it settles down… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 36 minutes ago, DamperMan said: An observation is that I’ve actually “suffered” hay-fever this year. Increasing a week after the first jab… not just as feeling light itchy eyes and some sneezing. To proper itchy eyes, full on nose flow and sneezing. I know pollen has been high but it has been on Other years too. And again 1 week after my second jab this hay fever took a notch up again! …. I think the vaccine has excited my immune system and now actually have full on hay-fever. Hopefully it settles down… You know what I'm the same. I've never had hay-fever in all my days. But the past 3 or 4 weeks I've suffered with it terribly. I never even gave it a thought it could be jab (pfizer) related 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamperMan Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said: You know what I'm the same. I've never had hay-fever in all my days. But the past 3 or 4 weeks I've suffered with it terribly. I never even gave it a thought it could be jab (pfizer) related 🤔 I find it hard to believe pollen has been worse than ever in the last xx years of my life::: mines Astrazenica but still…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 I have pollen alerts to my phone, this summer seems to have been slightly worse than the last few. And my symptoms are I would suspect, statistically, not wildly different to last year, may be a little up. But I'm not getting through my hay-fever meds any faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arm Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Previous years have suffered with hay fever. But not this time and have had both jabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/gps-and-data-indicate-continued-rise-in-double-vaccinated-covid-cases/ "A weekly update from the ZOE study at King’s College London, said there were currently 15,537 new daily symptomatic cases in partly or fully vaccinated people, an increase of 40% from 11,084 new cases last week. By contrast in unvaccinated people in the UK there are currently an average of 17,581 new daily PCR-confirmed symptomatic cases of Covid, according to the ZOE figures, a drop of 22% from the week before. It suggests the number of new cases in the vaccinated population is set to overtake the unvaccinated in the coming days, the team noted." Of course, if 100% of people are vaccinated and there is 1 case then that means vaccinated people make up 100% of those with the disease, and gradually more people are having the vaccine - but with unvaccinated cases dropping and vaccinated cases increasing so quickly (faster than the speed of vaccine rollout), it seems to indicate that naturally acquired immunity is doing a better job than the vaccine. We are also seeing reduced deaths as a proportion of cases in this wave, but we are gaining natural immunity over time, its summer, and a proportion of those most susceptible to Covid have now passed on. Yet they will claim to have done a brilliant job introducing the vaccine and its been amazingly successful, blah blah. In related news: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/ Main takeaway from the above article: vaccine effectiveness estimated by unbiased 3rd party at 19-29%. Strong opinion alert: Prediction: Over the next year, our freedoms will be reduced and requirement for vaccine passports increased. Then Covid jabs will become a paid service with booster jabs required every few months to maintain valid vaccine passport status. We'll effectively have a nation of drug addicts. This will help to bolster the NHS balance sheet ready for final sale (anyone remember "Save The NHS" and those working in hospitals commenting on how quiet it was?), and those with shares / fingers in pharmaceutical pies will make huge wedges of cash. (Edit to add: I know I have been skeptical throughout this thread, but I am not anti vax in any way. However, when I am being told to do something (2 letters and 7 text messages now, and counting) by someone / something it makes me wonder why. So I start to research things for myself, and form what I hope to be an unbiased and rounded opinion, no matter which side of the fence that falls, and always be open to changing that with further information and research). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arm Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Who is going to buy the NHS ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Well I know Trump wanted to, for starters. Which probably makes it a bad idea 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arm Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 What are the figures like ? I thought the NHS spend was 580 million........per day Thats probably not all of it. There are the pensions and the associated businesses plus loads more im sure. Who or how could that be presented as a business case. Be surprised if anyone can make a choice out of that. Do we need to spend more on the NHS ? Id like to say yes if its someone else's money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 6 hours ago, AdamR said: Main takeaway from the above article: vaccine effectiveness estimated by unbiased 3rd party at 19-29%. Peter Doshi is far from an unbiased commentator, and the article is 7 months old, which is a LONG time given the speed with which things change. http://hildabastian.net/index.php/covid-19/103-unpacking-doshi-take I suspect what we have here is Doshi's prose confirms Adams position and I have found an article by a similarly partisan individual that contradicts so one could argue we are both looking for confirmation of our beliefs. But that doesn't change the fact that neither Adams linked to article or mine are likely to be unbiased. I'll fall back to lies, damned lies and statistics. And I have edited to add... I forgot all about the scholar.google.com website which may be better at digging up scholarly works and (hopefully) avoids all the general internet and YouTube charlatans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.