2020 Speed Series regulations - draft copy

[Kingster]

6 minutes ago, syman84 said:

Yes correct so only the bike engine powered car can have a sequencial in W1 and W2

That would be how I’d interpret that. Bike engines (as used in our cars) can’t actually have anything other than a sequential box.

 

Not sure how you would interpret a Westfield built from a modular kit and then IVA’d with a sequential box from new? 

[Simon Waterfall Syman84]

2 minutes ago, Chris King - Webmaster and Joint North East AO said:

Not sure how you would interpret a Westfield built from a modular kit and then IVA’d with a sequential box from new? 

Good point definitely needs clarification 

[Terry Everall]

W1 and W2 can use whatever gearbox they wish to 

[XTR2Turbo]

2 hours ago, Terry Everall - WSCC Competition Secretary said:

W1 and W2 can use whatever gearbox they wish to 

Terry. Please can you explain the  rule interpretation  for those of us less familiar with the blue book.  Is it because no explicit mention under specialist production it implies free? Thanks. David 

[Simon Waterfall Syman84]

1 hour ago, XTR2Turbo said:

Terry. Please can you explain the  rule interpretation  for those of us less familiar with the blue book.  Is it because no explicit mention under specialist production it implies free? Thanks. David 

Having spoken to Terry today. The series cannot reduce any safety requirements that Msuk have in place eg roll over protection or head restraints requirements but can amend vehicle spec for there own series class's. 

 

I would say that competitors will have to check individual class requirements for on the day competition as some clubs make not alow it, I see this as another positive step the SSOT have taken to be inclusive to all owners. 

[XTR2Turbo]

On 02/11/2019 at 15:24, syman84 said:

Having spoken to Terry today. The series cannot reduce any safety requirements that Msuk have in place eg roll over protection or head restraints requirements but can amend vehicle spec for there own series class's. 

 

I would say that competitors will have to check individual class requirements for on the day competition as some clubs make not alow it, I see this as another positive step the SSOT have taken to be inclusive to all owners. 

The rules are not written like that presently I think (no mention of gearboxes) - they simply point to the blue book?  Also I thought you could make rules for class tighter than MSUK but not more relaxed.  We used to do this with windscreens for example.As an aside the rules refer to S12 and S13 but I assume based on 2019 it should be S11 and S12 ?

[Terry Everall]

Nope the 2020 Motorsport UK changes are that Road Classes are S12 and Modified is S13 ( so its changed from 2019)

[graham frankland]

For clarity of understanding Motorsport UK have only renumbered and slightly renamed the classes for Sprinting and Hill Climbing (1 number higher) to allow Standard Car regs to be included lower down the schedule.

The regulation content of each new renumbered class seems in the main to be the same as it was in its previously numbered schedule for the 2019 Blue Book!

Glutey

 

[cphelps]

@Terry Everall - WSCC Competition Secretary I have just received the WAMC championship calendar, and that states that Pembrey will be on the 6th / 7th June, not on the previous weekend, as stated in these regs. Are you sure of the date you have noted?

[Terry Everall]

I will check the date asap

[Terry Everall]

My paperwork shows the dates in the Regs are correct with the datesI was given previously but the BARC WALES website says Dates changed again and that the dates of 6th/7th June are not yet confirmed

Clearly the date is ambiguous and I will press for an update

[graham frankland]

My body and brain (partly) are functioning again after the shock of the drastic wholesale changes being proposed for the SS in 2020!

I would agree that the SS does need a serious make-over to attract new entrants to competition and entice back those who are no longer taking part or are finding their enjoyment in other sprint and hill climb championships.

The proposals for 2020 will not address these obvious objectives correctly and they also run a high risk of turning more competitors away from the SS championship which has provided many Westfield owners (me included) much enjoyment over the years!

What we must avoid here is the kids christmas present syndrome "the box looks shiney and bright on the outside but the contents are not fit for purpose before the end of christmas day"

So why are the SSOT so keen to push on with these proposals and and get them into MS UK asap ?

1) BEWARE once approved I am told every year it is impossible to get them changed when errors and omissions come to light after approval!

2) The Blue Book including the tyre list for 2020 has not been made available for general circulation so without this necessary information I guess a large number of the potential competitors are not that well informed on what MS UK are going to issue!

Like the SSOT I to have a draft copy of the regs soon to be published that is dated 19th Sept!

3) Contrary to the SSOT explaination the MS UK 2020 Regs are very little different for sprinting and hill climbing than those for 2019 except for the renumbering to allow General Cars to added att he lower end of the numbering system

So lets be clear here the changes to the SS Regs have NOT been caused by changes to MS UK regs for 2020!

4) The much discussed Target Time System with all of it's problems either perceived or actual did facilitate a consistent performance measurement system across all SS classes and MORE IMPORTANTLY did allow a single driver in any given class to actually have do a bit of work to achieve a reasonable score at any given event that he or she was the only competitor in the class.

5) You may or not be aware that Paul Morcom headed up a working party a couple years ago to review most available scoring systems and based on that comprehensive piece of work the SSOT at the time concluded that Target Times were the best option for the SS and all of it's different considerations.

6) Now it is proposed that we have a first past the post scoring system for 2020 which in it's self is no bad thing but as far as the speed series is concerned it comes with strings attached!

7) The major one being it should NOT ALLOW 1 person in one class to go around 10 events and score maximum points with little or no effort. IT needs a QUORUM to be specified for the number of competitors competing on the day in EACH Class before the points count towards the SS Championship!

8) This leads on to the technical class stucture of the SS Regs. By the nature of the beast a Westfield Sports car is a very variable item, some factory built cars, some factory supplied kits for self assembly and many "home brew" designs that has been the brain child of the owner builder many of which compete in the SS!

9) Over the years the SS Regs have been honed to take account of this wide variety of technical differences to provide a "levelled" playing field for the many differently speced cars to compete side by side in a reasonably fair manner!

10) The MS UK Regs CANNOT and DO NOT drill down to such a level of technical complexities but do try to provide regulatory framework that addresses the main supply of vehicles coming from manufacturures with defined specifications and known production quantities and specify at a high level what MUST be done and what can and cannot be done to allow participation in UK Motorsport.

11) They rely totally on the Club Championships to define in their Regulations what is fair, reasonable and equitable conditions under which competitors should compete in their chhampioship.

12) In the proposed 2020 SS regulations the SSOT have dispensed with fairness and level playing field conditions that we enjoyed from our previous regs in favour of the inadequate MS UK Regs because of the need to have a well populated class structure need to support the first past the post scoring system.

13) The most over riding decision of un-fairness in the proposed 2020 SS Regs is the amalgamation of the Bike Engined Cars in with Car Engined Cars in both the Road Going and Modified Clases.

14) Only a limited number of the Car Engined Westfields will be able compete on similar technical specs to Bike Engined Cars in Road Going classes because of the Sequential Gearbox Regulations MS UK Regs ref 12.8.1 (b) where only a handful of factory built cars were supplied and specified  using Elite Sequential gearboxes which proved to be to weak to cope the outputs of the higher powered engines.     

15) In the modified classes it is fair to say the to have any chance against the bike engined cars (apart from ACW coming back) car engine Westfields will need to be upgraded to at least sequential gearboxes, slick tyres and as much power they can squeeze out of their hand picked and much loved car engine!

16) You must appreciate like many of these things the devil is in the detail and the details must be understood!

17) It really depends on what you want to in the to do and get out of the speed series? either just make up the numbers so the first past the post scoring system works fairly or do what to try and win something?

18) For most of the Car Engined Owners the new SS Regs as currently proposed means spending MONEY and probably quite a LOT of it, ie changing your car, buying new gearboxes, slick tyres and associated wheels and probably a lot of other stuff! With these Regs as proposed for many of us the ARMS RACE is back big time!

19) Do not let the SSOT "BORIS" you! Put in the time to understand the details, how they will affect you and how much they will COST you!  

20) With regard to lesser rule changes if we are reducing the overall number of events and the Novice Champ is reduced to 6 events why don't we reduce the Expert Champ to 8 Events.

21) Why can't we retain the Sprint Challenge along side the new Hill Climb award ?    

 

Proposed Workable Solution

We MUST NOT let the proposed new SSOT Regs go to MS UK for approval in there current form but I do not want to be a total party pooper in this matter!

It is now time to put Bike Engined Westfields into seperate classes in both Road Going and Modified on there own particularly if the the first past the post scoring system is to be adopted!

I will let some else look into quetion of what car engined cars can get away with by running under the MS UK Technical regs with no added rules from the SSOT ie dog box h pattern gearboes allowed in Road Going and so on!

 

Long Live the Speed Series we must improve it's appeal to all Westfield owners and not just the quickest drivers and those with the higest levels of technical wizardry!

 

Sunday Brain Dump overy!

 

Enlightened reading I hope?

 

Glutey

 

[Howard]

Graham, you agree that the Speed Series needs a makeover.  Can you not embrace the change with a positive outlook?  I for one felt the Speed Series was becoming stale and I suspect I'm not the only one.  It needed more than a few tweaks here and there. I find the changes rejuvenating.

I think putting BECs in their own class would be counterproductive, and I'm not convinced there is a significant overall performance difference when on the same tyres. They'll make gains in some areas and CECs will gain in others. I suspect the real difference is who's behind the wheel. 

 

 

[XTR2Turbo]

I am not sure sequential boxes are always such a differentiator on car engined cars and as important as they are on bike engined cars with a narrower power band and need for more frequent changes. I think (John Hoyle?)  told me he was actually slower at some circuits with sequential due to having 6 gears vs 4 or 5 and more changes. It all depends on the circuit. I know my Sadev can be a bit of a pain going down lots of gears quickly eg at the end of a fast straight into tight corner such as at Loton. 
 

I think weight of BEC makes a bigger difference. 
 

David

[Alex Gaskin]

3 hours ago, XTR2Turbo said:

 I think (John Hoyle?)  told me he was actually slower at some circuits with sequential

That’s just reminded me of Barry Slingsby. Barry won the championship with an H-Pattern synchro, and was a chunk quicker than the previous year when he was using a sequential. Some of Barry’s target times still stand to this day around 7 years later!