Tyre Advice

[Kit Car Electronics]

You all know I'm just going to recommend traction control 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

1 minute ago, Kit Car Electronics said:

You all know I'm just going to recommend traction control 

....and the winner is! ^

[DamperMan]

It’s hard not to imagine wider not being better.  But i’m not convinced.   It’s very hard to make direct comparisons since people generally compare used aged tyres against their latest new tyre. Or comparing track times which may not be appicable to wildly changing road conditions.   The problem is we have is the tyres are typically designed for much heavier cars. Fashion !  In the 90’s a Sierra cosworth had 205’s now my wife’s Ibiza has 205’s.   Wider tyres look more sporty and have the potential for more grip in favourable conditions.  Yet in greasy and cold conditions the potential for even less grip making a larger change in available grip which can make driving the car less predicable.   I’m not suggesting a size just suggesting not to get to couldn’t up with fitting the biggest widths you can find. 

[Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO]

23 minutes ago, Kit Car Electronics said:

You all know I'm just going to recommend traction control 

Anybody know of a retrofit system ????  

[Steve (sdh2903)]

@AdgeC how are you getting on using the car in the colder conditions with the car? Any brown trouser inducing moments? Are you still on the T1rs?

With regards to tyre width I agree that today there is too much of a tendency for "bigger is better". My wife's A4 is on 19 in alloys with 245 section tyres and it's only a 1.4! In the cold and wet the extra width really doesn't help at all. We've recently gone onto a winter set and dropped to 18s with a 205 section tyre and with the extra sidewall and narrower width it rides much better. Grip is massively increased too but probably more down to the tread/compound.

However having driven the sport 250 in some grip unfriendly conditions (Scottish summer) I'd maintain that wider at the back has to better. It's putting down 250bhp and 300lbs of torque with only 300 odd kilos over the axle. And the issue is the torque comes in so low down the rev range.

Comparing that to a cosworth with 220 ish bhp and 6-700 kilos over the axle and it shows how much your asking of the rubber.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

Out of interest what do the seight owners use on the back? As they are running some big lbft figures.

[Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO]

@6carjon we'd welcome your input!

[Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO]

4 hours ago, sdh2903 said:

@AdgeC how are you getting on using the car in the colder conditions with the car? Any brown trouser inducing moments? Are you still on the T1rs?

Still really enjoying the car, outings are a bit limited, been rather "damp" on the Somerset levels. When the sun comes out temps. drop and the roads are covered in salt! Got some ACF50, but haven't applied it yet. Still on the T1R's, they seem to cut through the S*** on the road! Finding that provided I'm gentle with the right foot and change gear early, the car (still "running in") being very tractable, is fun to drive. Mind you I suspect my progress (or lack of) would make experienced Westie drivers laugh! Had a couple of throttle induced moments, nothing with lasting (or laundry) effects though. Whilst I'm probably driving like "Miss Daisy" I'm really enjoying it.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

34 minutes ago, AdgeC said:

Whilst I'm probably driving like "Miss Daisy" I'm really enjoying it.

Best way to go in any new car adge. Much better than ending up going through a hedge backwards

[DamperMan]

Even with a 1.6 CVH T1R’s I found scary in anything other than the dry.  But they are cheep and say toyo on the side.   R1R have been night and day better although did get badly chewed at silverstone so I now have a set of r888’s for track days. 

[6carjon]

Hi bugman

My v8 car has been putting anything from 300 to 400 lbs ft of torque through the rear tyres since 2001. The chassis has held up well 

I started on toyo proxies, yes I meant to miss the r out. They are dangerous for high torque and light cars, simply too hard and setup for a heavier car for a Westfield to ever generate decent grip.

I tried Yokohama 48 and toyo 888 with massive benefits. They work well in dry and even wet if you are careful. You should be aware they take a few miles to warm up before you can push them but only three miles or so. They also cool if you spend time in traffic too.

They won't drive through the winter or flooded roads but I doubt you want your car for this.

I have had really good experiences on a lower powered car with federal 595 rsr which are nearly a year round tyre that will also do track days and great road grip. They wouldn't work in my Westfield with the torque but not sure on your car?

Just a qualifier though. Even with hot toyo 888 I can still spin the rear wheels at three figure speeds in 4th under acceleration.

I have tried toyo sg and gg compounds. I favour sg which are even softer than gg. They are great on the roads better than gg  and only get too hot on track days if you do more than 15 minutes which is often enough anyway.

If choose another tyre always look at the tread wear rating as a rough guide. Anything of 100 or less is in the right direction for a soft tyre. If you see 250 or 400 it's for a big luxury car or rock hard economy tyres to last forever and never grip.

Think 888 are 80 or less.

A soft tyre will really enhance your car with good geo and make you enjoy it rather than be scared of it. Don't forget your turn in from the front end will make you forget understeer until you get back into your daily driver........

In the rain with an 888 or 48 they still grip and corner better as good as a normal car but obviously not as good as  it does in the dry. Just drive as if you are in the daily driver and you will be ok.

[Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO]

On 1/3/2018 at 11:23, BigSkyBrad said:

@IanK (Bagpuss) True, the Westfield are considerably lighter , and the pressures are adjusted accordingly. And yes, yours aren't streeeeeeetched (just not Toyo recommended)

A good amount of a tyre's grip is provided by the sidewall when cornering, smoothing subtle shifts to help prevent break-away - this is achieved by having a little sidewall bulge. In the case of your R888's, a good gauge is the wee lip at the edge of your tread, which should be at least in line (or greater) with your rim edge.

Just had some time in the garage so took some pics and measurements.

This is a 205/50/15 TR1 on a 7" rim, the timber is from bulge to bulge and I measure 17mm from the edge of the rim to the bulge.

This is my 205/50/15 R888R on an 8" rim with only 4mm from rim to bulge.

 

[BigSkyBrad]

@IanK (Bagpuss) Out of curiosity, if it's 4mm from the rim to the straightedge, what is the distance from the edge of the tread to the straightedge? Here's the lip I mentioned on the R888 - you've scrubbed the tread to within mm of that, you've definitely used all of the tyres you paid for!

I've got tame 205/50-15 Uniroyal Rainsport-3's on 7" rims, and the actual ground contact is 185mm at resting and 19psi. It defo looks under-tyred and if I ever pot-holed a rim and couldn't get a replacement, I'd go down to a 6.5" set. However, it's true that track tyres have a contact patch that is closer to it's stated width, and actual rim width is measured across the inside of the lips.

Here's a 205/50-15 T1-R on a 6.5" from one of my old MX5's for comparison.

Sorry @BugMan, has this all gone off-piste, or are your questions answered? - I (and probably everyone else on here) like a good discussion! Incidently, the code for your rims 5K2-58024H1 - 58024 is 5 for 15", 80 is for 8.0" wide and 24 is the offset.

 

[BugMan]

Yea, a BIg thanks to all who have made comment on this, I have settled on the Toto 205x50x15 Proxy R1R's on both front and rear.

Been a bit of a learning curve, but think I'm there now, next job it to find some on the web once my birthday money comes in at the end of the month.

big Thanks to all, as usual.

 

 

[BugMan]

OK team, stuck on a training course in London so thought I'd do some shopping around for my tyres as I need to get them very soon so i can drop my chassis onto the ground, and then onto axle stands.

Started "Googling" around for my Toto 205x50x15 Proxy R1R's, and TBH I'm struggling to find any in in stock, or at a less than exorbitant price.

Anybody got any suggestions on supply or an decent equivalent alternative?

I'm after a pretty "general" purpose usage, but don't want something that needs a lot of heat in it B4 it becomes safe/usable