Forum / Boardroom Changes

[Rory's Dad]

Wake up Martin

[mb893]

a.

OK, so far so good…

b.

Will this fizzle out after a month or two, or will it be a ‘housekeeping task’ for someone on the Committee? If the latter, all well and good, if the former… well now.

c.

Again, so far so good, the ‘trade members’ have the choice to pay or not to pay – their commercial decision…

d.

See above – a good idea.

e.

And why not? Could be a slight ‘conflict of interest’ but… I can see threads devolving down to squabbles between suppliers, entertaining though I suppose.

f.

Wow, really, just wow! Do you think you could find a better way of disadvantaging the membership? The arguments against have been put rather well I feel.

g.

Really? Does this happen a lot?

[Speed Freak]

but the simple truth is that now less members will be willing to start up a bulk buy and thus less offers will reach the members.

absolutely right

[markcoopers]

Scott, we are mindful of the balance, it is front and centre in everything i have put into the club, we are just explaining that it is in a different position to where the current "rules" have it.

So hyperthetically I can link to an advert for a mate but I can not actually advertise his car? The advertising being a benefit of membership presumably? So do we really think that none members will join just to sell a car, or do we think that in reality neither the member or the none member will be bothered and no mention of a Westfield for sale will be made on the Westfield sports car club site?

Again am I alone in seeing this as wrong?

Membership benefits are not about boardroom posting ability, membership benefit is about what you get from the club, the support to fix your car, or upgrade it, the ease of access and help when moving into Motorsport, the area runs out and local activities. The club exists because we have members that do this and we need more of them, so recruit more of them and the best way of doing that or at least one way is making sure that the WSCC is a must visit location for finding a car. Then they will talk to an excited and passionate owner and may well want to join.

Less cars, less reason, this is the wrong direction.

To make my point further if needed, how many posts do we see from newbies asking about cars for sale and posting a Pistonheads link? Why isn't that car on our site? Did we do everything we could to ensure that it could have been? I would suggest not.

[Doug Dastardly]

I'd also rather not be pm'd by forum users.

Today I've had a pm asking for a wiring diagram and replyed saying I'll email it to you if you pm me your address.

He sent me his hotmail address and I emailed him the diagrams.

Then I noticed that he wasn't a member, and when I checked his profile he only joined yesterday, has not posted anything and has no info. He now has my email address too.

While I'm sure it is genuine (at least I hope so, but I have no idea why he pm'd me out of all of us) I'd prefer the security of it just being between members. With a member you can have a certain confidence in their 'genuine-ness' Made up word alert!!!!

I'm sorry for being negative committee members, I certainly don't envy you.

Doug

[ACW]

Ok. Let me try to further explain, in the interest of alleviating fears. Please do bear in mind the committee have been discussing these issues for a long time and then decided on a course of action at the round table meeting. We have talked through all of the points been made and considered these very carefully in our approach. Ultimately the outcome of these changes will determine how right or wrong we got them. There is no 100% correct way and there are plenty of issues with the status quo. We will of course alter, change and adapt where this is required, after we have seen the result of the changes.

Let me take a few of the points:

Bulk Buys

The committee wish to avoid the potential acrimony, legal issues and liability involved with BBs going through a member. It's much better to have each member individually contracted with the supplier, especially in cases where there is non-payment, or a claim that goods are not fit for purpose etc. as well as other issues.

I do think however that, if a member comes up with a knockout suggestion for a supplier offering a bulk discount, we could (by committee dispensation) offer the supplier an exceptional three/four months' free trade membership in order to be able to make the offer. That would keep the direct customer/supplier relationship, and would be automatically pre-moderated.

Traders want to, and we want traders to engage with the club. For any trader the 120 is a small fee to be able to engage for 12 months. Through this we believe club discounts will be made enabling members to procure bulk buy prices whenever suits them without liability on any individual. We have evidence of this both in the above and our own discussions with potential traders. We believe this is a win win situation. Not allowing traders to engage has been harmful to the club members in the committee opinion and thus this needs defining.

I have already said that, but perhaps not clearly, where special bulk buys take place with the committee approval (after consideration by the committee) the club will publish these bulk buys. This would be subject to criteria including who the contract of purchase is legally with.

I am sure that most of the companies that bulk buys have been organised with will engage further through this process and it will see us adding to the current list of companies offering our members discounts.

Forum Users

The expansion of forum users facilities albeit for a limited period is precisely to ensure that the forum user can be of benefit to a member, but buying his car/parts or advertising car or parts for members. The ebay links section is no longer for links, but for adverts. However ones where we have less control over the content and comeback. Buyer beware.

Regards,

Adrian.

[adam1330]

Most points seem a good idea to me, except the bulk buy and Forum User issue.

As has been said, the bulkp buy thing where the trader has to pay the WSCC for the privilege doesn't seem like a very good idea to me, I can see the trader just saying 'no thanks' and not offering any deals. Could understand it if the trader came to the Boardroom off thier own back, but not if a WSCC member has organised it.

Regarding the Forum User issue, surely the better way to go, rather than have a 20 posts and you're out, would be a limit to the number of posts per day they can make, say a couple each day.

[Mark Stanton]

Does no-one ever read what the committee guys have posted other than draw pictures, why does it need continual clarification, bulk buys simply need to be correctly put together with a proper and perhaps more formal approach - and for those that already undertake this there should not be any problems or issues arising from what has been noted.

Bulk buys done on a whim / promise and a knee jerk are always and have always been open to abuse and/or commercial disaster, the club committee team are simply trying to remove this for the benefit of all the membership and provide a more stable and professional foundation from which to develop and offer long term growth and benefit for the membership and not a quick fix that fails

[Pistol Pete]

i think you will find reading and agreeing are two seperate events

[Norman Verona]

May I make my tuppence worth.

Firstly I accept all the committee decide as they are the elected management team. If we, as members, don't like their decisions or think we can do better step forward.

I do not own a Westfield. I live in France so cannot enjoy any other benefits other than the forum and magazine. Yet I have been a paid up member for a number of years. I wouldn't use something without contributing to it's cost. Just my way. So, as far as the Forum Users are concerned I can but agree with the committee.

However, there is a down side to this. Non members usually bring something to a forum making it a richer place, more humour and experience. If a non member abuses his priviledge he can be stopped and "thrown out". It's a very hard one to call. If the forum is very good it will entice more people to join. AO's also have a problem. Do they allow non members to attend area meetings? If so, why? For what it's worth I would allow non members to post in selected areas only. No PMs, no ads. Now I know there has been criticism about not allowing non-members to answer for sale ads but this is easy to deal with (do I need to state the obvious). So, now the committee has responded to criticism there is an outcry. Damned if you do and damned if you don'r springs to mind.

I feel somewhat entitled to talk about bulk buys. If my two very large bulk buys had been limited to members only (of L7C, not here) they just would not have happened. In fact there was serious criticism when a trader ordered 10 jacks for resale. I pointed out that his 10 jacks helped get the numbers up and the prices down. When I explained this the person doing the b1tching he backed down and admitted he hadn't thought of it that way. For those that aren't aware of the BB's I organised the last one (2006?) was valued at $90,000. And for the recored, believe me if you think I'm an honest chap, I paid for my goods in full.

OK, so now on to the BB's in the club. The trader member is a good idea for companies who wish to offer discount to members in order to SELL goods.

However, sometimes the boot is on the other foot. A member wants a certain product and phones a small supplier or manufacturer and in the discussion the subject of price arises. Our member asks how many purchases would enjoy a discount. this is us BUYING and it will cease if the supplier has to pay £120.

Another scenario is, for example, Ceriolas diffuser. Lets say, and this has happened many times, he decides he can make some for others in his spare evenings when not on duty and away from his silly b***h wife. Does he budget for 10 sales and add £12 to his material costs to get the BB through? And if he does who's paying? I would suggest the members.

If we take my bulk buy I would have to add the £120 to the cost of the goods as the supplier would not be interested in joining as a trade member (he probably has never heard of Caterham let alone Westfield). OK, in that one I would have taken a view and added 50p to each item but I trust you see the point. It was difficult enough negotiating with an inscrutable Chinaman, working out shipping costs, dock charges, VAT on a quantity not yet know. Then of course there was currency fluctuations to consider. The first came in with a profit of about £350 which went to the clubs (L7C) nominated charity and the second was £12 over which I kept to pay for the 4 long phone calls to China.

So, is there a solution? How about, if I may suggest, that Trade Membership and Sponsors have a forum for them to advertise their weekly or monthly specials to the members. BB generated by the members or supplied by a member could attract a per-centage levy to be paid by members. Think of this as a small donation to enjoy a worthwhile price saving. This money could be put aside and awarded to the "Club Member of the Year". 5% would seem about right. 5 pence in the pound would not raise the price by so much as to kill the venture. There could be a upper cap, say £5 for the more expensive items.

Bulk Buys would be far more successful if open to all. Non Members could be made to pay, say, 10% extra or join.

I hope I haven't upset anyone as I'm trying to be constructive.

[chazpowerslide]

Does no-one ever read what the committee guys have posted other than draw pictures, why does it need continual clarification, bulk buys simply need to be correctly put together with a proper and perhaps more formal approach - and for those that already undertake this there should not be any problems or issues arising from what has been noted.

Bulk buys done on a whim / promise and a knee jerk are always and have always been open to abuse and/or commercial disaster, the club committee team are simply trying to remove this for the benefit of all the membership and provide a more stable and professional foundation from which to develop and offer long term growth and benefit for the membership and not a quick fix that fails

Exactly how many member organised bulk buys have gone down in flames on here?

How many have ended in acromony, abuse and fallout that has directly brought the club into disrepute/financial cost?

Where is the history of abuse, failure and issues that has prompted the change?

I agree that we should establish traders for an enhanced membership fee and for them to be free to be able to offer goods and services via the trader section to the membership.

That way the likes of Steve D and Mick can sell their products and services without infringing the commercial posting rules if they become trade members.

It will enhance the clud's offering to the members which was the origional idea.

Why on earth this should extended to bulk buys organised by members is beyond me.

Why rule against something that is not and has not been an issue for us in the past?

Chaz.

Edited to correct spelling......

[Mark Stanton]

ah well ........... to adjust an old saying of horses and water ...............

you can lead someone to a post but you cannot make them read

c'est la vie Good Luck to the WSCC Comm Team, Traders, Sponsors and WSCC bulk buy organisers - I am sure it will all work out in the long term

[pete g]

popcorn any one :d

[Martin Keene]

I was being polite, a first for me, with my original question. Others have vented similar concerns to mine in a much more eloquent manner.

[mb893]

"...but you cannot make them read"

I think 'they've' read it (as have I), 'they' just don't like it (as don't I)...