Forum / Boardroom Changes

[Norman Verona]

Oooh, I don't know.

I think that idiot Scott is to blame for everything.

Well, why should it always be me!

[ACW]

New rules have been posted for sign up.

[Scottish Bloke]

OK, I've read several pages of this thread and there are many valid concerns one way and the other. As I see it the club/committee have acted on pressure created by financial strain, which those of us who were at the AGM heard about.

Many issues have clearly been addressed at the most recent committee meeting, we must bear in mind that the committee members are Volunteers and are geographically challenged hence the need to get as much sorted round one table in one visit. I think it's very easy to forget that the members responsible act in our/the clubs best interests and almost certainly will not please all of the people all of the time.

Whether we all agree with the new BB rules or not, they have clearly been well discussed and argued over between committee members and this is what has been agreed. Personally I think we all need to calm down, stop shooting each other, allow the changes to filter in and allow them to be tweeked as necessary, if it's wrong I'm very sure it will be put right in due coarse.

Slanging each other off, and frankly being childish in reply to others is not what made this club great.

These are clearly challenging times for the WSCC, we must all pull in the same direction, take a bit of pain and move forward. As I see it if we continue to p*** off our volunteer committee members, club stewards and area organisers, before long we will not have a club. Fact.

Long live a successfull and prosperous WSCC!!

[Steven (WE51STE)]

I'm with Mark, Andrew, Chaz and the others on this.

As an example - earlier this year I contacted compomotive to ask if there was any sort of group buy discount for WSCC members that we could arrange - they agreed, I failed to get the required numbers but out of goodwill they still honoured the deal, which saved me over 15% on a set of wheels, and I got thanks from another member for whom they also gave the same deal to. In order to attempt the same in future I would have to ask Compomotive to join as a trader first at £120. You know their answer to that. It will stop the discount and only penalise members.

As for the 30 day limit - what happens to the person who is looking for a car, joins up, contacts a seller and it doesn't work out. That means after 30 days they can't contact any other sellers. so they have effectively a 1 month window to buy a car from a WSCC member or go elsewhere? Again, this only penalises members by reducing the ease in which potential buyers can contact.

I have to say +1 as I agree to all the points raised by ( Mark, Andrew, Chax and Greig et al)

I guess I might not be too popular after this post but I've been biting my tongue for too long.

It seems that the club is loosing focus of the grass root members and only interests are its own finances :

• Magazine form 6 -> 4 issues
  
• Restrictions on individuals organising bulk buys
  

Another example of this is I was organising a Curborugh Track Day ( As the Warwickshire Area has done 2 times a year for at least the last 8 years I've been a member ).

I originally give the Warwickshire Area Members first refusal and the if there is any spaces left open them up to the other areas.

When I posted in the General Chat Forum that there was some spaces left and other areas were welcome to join us.

I was basically told I was wrong to post in the "General" section as it was event related.

That I could have understood but I was then told that I was treading on the committees toes as they had organised their track days this year and were struggling to sell all the places and I was unwanted competition. Even though our local events are more long standing than the main clubs.

As you can imagine this is a little disheartening for the Area Organiser to hear when they are trying their best for the club and local area.

If there is nothing happening at a local level there will be no National Club as more and more members will leave.

I love my Westfield ( Shame about the weather this year ), I love the club and just want to see it move in the right direction.

Regards,

Steve

[Mark Stanton]

Steve

Please take a look at all the clarifications posted - if you want to arrange an exceptional offer for a bulk buy you can still do this and approach a suitable committee member - what is needed is that all info is forwarded to WSCC committee upfront in a more organised manner rather than just an ad hoc posting on the boardroom "simples" - don't get so focused on the trader element this is for small traders wanting to promote and sell their products - if you or any member has an exceptional bulk buy offer this can still be done, just by a different - as was always the case on the first posting on this matter

Magazine from 6 to 4 I don't think anyone least of all the WSCC committee wanted to see the magazine reduced but sad fact was with the economic downturn and losing so many members over the previous 18 months meant that the club could not exist in the same manner and something needed to be done - just ask any committee member they will tell you this - the club simply could not go on the way it was - I am sure that the WSCC committee will continue to monitor the situation and if possible return the magazine to its bi-monthly issue if and when available to do so.

On "free" members and the allowance - personally I think the free-loading should have been stopped many many years ago - if forum users care so much about the WSCC then let them pay their membership fee like so many others - this club as friendly as it is does dot run on fresh air and needs money just like you me and every other club

[ACW]

Steve,

Let me try an answer some of your points. I have spoken with Chaz, and I think now that what the committee is proposing is understood as well as the reasons and what we are trying to achieve, that people are more relaxed as to what and why we are doing things.

Let me take your main points and try to explain. This isnt in order to be cantankerous or have the last say, but rather to try to provide information and insight into the committee's thinking.

I guess I might not be too popular after this post but I've been biting my tongue for too long.

It seems that the club is loosing focus of the grass root members and only interests are its own finances :

Magazine form 6 -> 4 issues

Two AGM's ago the issue of club income versus outgoings were raised as we had seen some decline in members renewing. It was proposed at the AGM to get rid of the printed version of WW (something I personally would not want to do). Because of the low attendance of the AGM, Paul the Club Chairman rightly decided to put this to postal vote via a slip included with WW. Very few people replied (club apathy?) but the general consensus was to keep the magazine.

Due to the costs and lack of content, it was therefore kept, but dropped to 4 editions annually.

Towards the end of 2011, the lack of renewing members reached crisis point. The club would cease to be if the rate continued till the end of this year. The committee and specifically Paul Dew and I worked to get online membership together with the new forum in place. We worked with the whole committee and particularly Scott the then new membership secretary to get this all in place. Of course this meant some upheaval, but as expected it helped recover the member count significantly. In addition Scott did sterling work to contact every old member and see if he could get them to renew. This also added significant members back into the fold.

This together with some cost constraints at events like Stoneleigh together with sponsor revenues for advertising paid to the club from Motorsport (£240 each) put the club back on what should now be sustainable footing.

Restrictions on individuals organising bulk buy unless the supplier becomes a trade member

( This negates the discounts the individuals have tried to organise for the benefits of all the club members )

Trade membership was a solution to the appearance of a 'closed shop' to sponsors only. It is not in the benefit of members if traders cannot make members aware of their services. BB by definition becomes a grey area in light of having trade members. The changes are designed to remove as many grey areas as possible. In addition the committee were very uncomfortable with bulk buys for which the organiser derives benefit that is above that of the other members participating. There are also many other ramifications well discussed already. We see no reason that any BB with merit that has happened before should not happen again. However all BB will have equal benefit for all members as well as other reasonable checks applied.

Another example of this is I was organising a Curborugh Track Day ( As the Warwickshire Area has done 2 times a year for at least the last 7 years I've been a member ).

I originally give the Warwickshire Area Members first refusal and the if there is any spaces left open them up to the other areas.

When I posted in the General Chat Forum that there was some spaces left and other areas were welcome to join us.

I was basically told I was wrong to post in the "General" section as it was event related.

That I could have understood but I was then told that I was treading on the committees toes as they had organised their track days this year and were struggling to sell all the places and I was unwanted competition. Even though our local events are more long standing than the main clubs.

I dont know the detail on this case, but events should be in the right section. There is no reason for any Area not to promote their events. Clearly we would ask areas to consider any national level events that the club has organised and committed funds to, to ensure no clash.

As you can imagine this is a little disheartening for the Area Organiser to hear when they are trying their best for the club and local area.

I can relate to that. It can be disheartening on the committee as well. The committee are trying to open more dialogue between local and national level and I hope that will help resolve many misunderstandings that can be disheartening and cause disillusionment on both sides.

If there is nothing happening at a local level there will be no National Club as more and more members will leave.

This is the committee's opinion totally.

Regards,

Adrian.

[GreigM]

For clarity in terms of locally organised track days. Would this fall under the BB rules and be effectively disallowed if I'm gathering the money myself? Or would I have to try and persuade the track day organiser to apply for trade membership (free or otherwise)?

[ACW]

AOs would be able to promote local events as they do now. If a track day organiser was offering a national level bulk buy then normally this would be done through the Competition Secretary - Nick Algar.

[markcoopers]

Restrictions on individuals organising bulk buy unless the supplier becomes a trade member

( This negates the discounts the individuals have tried to organise for the benefits of all the club members )

Trade membership was a solution to the appearance of a 'closed shop' to sponsors only. It is not in the benefit of members if traders cannot make members aware of their services. BB by definition becomes a grey area in light of having trade members. The changes are designed to remove as many grey areas as possible. In addition the committee were very uncomfortable with bulk buys for which the organiser derives benefit that is above that of the other members participating. There are also many other ramifications well discussed already. We see no reason that any BB with merit that has happened before should not happen again. However all BB will have equal benefit for all members as well as other reasonable checks applied.

Uncomfortable, really? I suspect most members couldn't give a monkey if a member organising a BB gote something from the deal or not. Afterall they are only interested in the deal that is on the table to them, if they like it they will entre it, if not they will not. What possible concern could that be for the committee? If the deal is not good enought, members will not take it up and it will fail....self policing if you will.

So if after all of this we are now down to all BB's are vetter first, why? what are you protecting?

Oh and i am still awaiting an answer as to why a member can not advertise a none members car or parts in the appropriate section (not a link). I explained earlier that this is not a lost revenue position, but rather one of cutting one's noise to spite their face. Less quality cars for sale, less newbie interest, less drive to be a member etc..........

[GreigM]

AOs would be able to promote local events as they do now. If a track day organiser was offering a national level bulk buy then normally this would be done through the Competition Secretary - Nick Algar.

Are you saying the organisation would have to be done between the TDO and Nick? With no real involvement of an individual member in the organisation?

[Mark Stanton]

Is it me as I read it - if a local AO wants to organise their own WSCC area trackday at Curborough for example for WSCC members, then why not simply crack on (ensuring to take out the track insurance offered) get your local area WSCC members on board, notified and sorted - however if its a commercial trackday organised by a commercial company that you want to post info onto the boardroom about, then thats a different matter and should go through WSCC Committee.

Always with one eye on the WSCC Calendar to ensure an event does not clash with something already organised ;)

[GreigM]

Is it me as I read it - if a local AO wants to organise their own WSCC area trackday at Curborough for example for WSCC members, then why not simply crack on (ensuring to take out the track insurance offered) get your local area WSCC members on board, notified and sorted - however if its a commercial trackday organised by a commercial company that you want to post info onto the boardroom about, then thats a different matter and should go through WSCC Committee.

Always with one eye on the WSCC Calendar to ensure an event does not clash with something already organised ;)

So as an example, this year I organised a "track day" at Knockhill. It was a session in a track day they already ran. They have no interest in the WSCC, and certainly wouldn't pay to become a trade member, nor would they go to the effort of applying to get a temporary membership - they days are popular enough that they don't have to. They were giving us this opportunity to have a session which was for WSCC members only as a favour to me. As I understand the rules I can't organise this off my own back anymore, so it effectively is dead. Its a shame as it was the only track event in Scotland.

[Scottish Bloke]

Where's the "Bangs Head" emoticon gone, Jeez.

[GreigM]

Where's the "Bangs Head" emoticon gone, Jeez.

Am I wrong?

[Captain Colonial]

As has been said before, if you have something like that, just bring it to the committee members first before you go public and we will look at it fairly and impartially to ensure it stays within the guidelines, and that it's fair for both members and organisers.