Jim1234 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Hi all My first post, so, rather than ask a question and perhaps get a lecture on how to use the search facility, I thought I would save the questions for another day and try a different tack! I'm sure, of course, someone will tell me if I have put this post in the wrong place, but then you have to start somewhere. I have a 2006 1800 Zetec Sport and am thinking about a 2.0l Duratec. Jumpjet, who like me is also looking for a Duratec, spotted an ad for a 2.0l Duratec on ebay, but mentioned to me that the exhaust was on the wrong side. The cam cover in the pictures of the car states the engine to be a Ford Duratec ST. I actually think it is a 2.0l Zetec (from a Ford Focus 170 ST?) that Ford, for marketing reasons, must have called a Duratec ST. Given that the owner is asking £12k for the car - not an unreasonable opening level for what I would call a 2.0l Duratec - it is rather misleading and overpriced for an older car with a Zetec engine. I spoke to the seller and did not feel that we were going to agree as to what he was actually selling. Perhaps, someone more experienced in these matters could tell me and other Newbies what they make of this ad. PS. Just had an idea! Has anyone got a Ford Duratec ST cam cover for sale - talk about low cost upgrades - I might even put my car up for sale------at say £12K! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark (smokey mow) Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Hi Jim, welcome onto the boardroom. Assuming we're talking about item number #220514752530 then the exhaust is on the wrong side for a Duratec, but I don't know my ford engines sufficently to answer your other questions. Had you spotted this one in the for sale section? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleggy the Spyder Man Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 yeah that advert is not being 100% straight that may be down to him actually not being that "in the know" on these things or it may be intentional - who knows car looks good though but like you say he is asking duratec money for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterg Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 QUOTE The 170PS 2.0-litre Duratec ST engine has been developed from the standard 130PS 2.0-litre Ford Focus engine with several new features, including: New, high-flow aluminium cylinder head with larger inlet valves and higher lift intake and exhaust camshafts for higher peak rpm levels Continuously variable intake valve timing High compression, cast-aluminium pistons and forged steel connecting rods So he's correct in that it IS a Duratec engine... the fact is that Westfield/Caterham etc owners have (incorrectly but understandably) got into the habit of labelling only the 'offside exhaust' engines as Duratecs - the problem is that Ford can call their engines what they like and if they think tweaking a 'Zetec' a bit and then calling it a 'Duratec ST' will sell a few more cars good on them The car is very well spec'd and will have way more than the standard 168bhp anyway with the Jenveys etc so maybe his pricing isn't that far out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleggy the Spyder Man Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 dont disagree - but if you call it just a Duratec then people think they are getting the all alloy engine like Peter says good spec - lots of carbon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Pete Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 From reading on here yes I think you are correct, but before you dismiss it there have been a few people onhere recently who have changed from the Zetec to the ST170 Zetec (I think this is the engine your are referring to) with some good results. I understand that the head/cam are quite a bit better resulting in good horsepower for straight swap (same block) rather than the hassle/cost of converting to the duratec (or any other engine change for that matter) . Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark (smokey mow) Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Ah you can always count on ford to confuse us . So just to clarify, the sellers description is accurate in that the car is fitted with a Duratec engine, But it is using the Duratec ST which is a modified version of the Iron Block Zetec E and not the all alloy Duratec HE which we are more familiar with in Westfields. simples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikpro Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 The ST170 Engine is really good - as said some very impressive results have been acheived using this engine.(Every bit as good as the Duratec I4). Only slight problem is the knowledge base isn't as wide with this engine.(Not enough of them were produced for aftermarket tuners to look at seriously). I think in Europe it was fitted with variable valve timing on the inlet cam (US versions had it on both cams). Most disable this feature when running aftermarket ECU's but some are capable of running it. Ford did call it a Duratec (It was basically a Zetec E block with better internals and a much better cylinder head than the Zetec E) but not the same as a Duratec I4 (Mazda Engine) as in the all alloy later Engine. Personally I would prefer the ST170 engine anyway -it has a stronger bottom end and the cylinder head is as good as the Duratec I4's. £12000 isn't over priced for a good spec Zetec Car; I haven't looked at the car you mention though. Don't fall for all the marketing hype on the Duratec I4 with it being all alloy - it isn't much lighter than a Zetec E(approx 10-15kgs)or more powerful in standard form (It is more tuneable than a Zetec E at high end over 230bhp but will cost!). The ST170 engine appears to be as tuneable as the Duratec I4. Cast blocks also have advantages over alloy blocks - I'll put my head on the chopping block here - The Duratec ST170 Engine (Modified Zetec E) is a better Engine than the Duratec I4 alloy Engine! Edited to add: This car is accurately described and looks extremely good/high spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim1234 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Nikpro, it looks like you must be spot on, not even a single challenger, never mind an axe! I seem to have wasted hours reading posts that tell me I should consider nothing other than a Duratec! Life is never simple, next some one will tell me that I should be only looking at VX based cars. Thanks to all who have helped me understand what is being sold. I believe that to upgrade a 2.0l Zetec with an up-rated/ported head and cams would cost perhaps £2k from an aftermarket supplier, which with throttle bodies would then put out close to 200bhp. If I understand the posts correctly that is what a Ford Focus Duratec ST should be compared with. To be fair to the seller, he said it was an early Duratec engine based on a modified Zetec, with me insisting it was a Zetec not a Duratec - so I think that we were having a communication problem based on misunderstandings and lack of knowledge. I think I now know how to value the car and to me it still look high with recent Duratec based cars with lots of goodies going for £11/13K, and relatively young standard 1.8 Zetec's on TBs being advertised /sold at around £8/9k. If anyone disagrees with this interpretation please let me know. I will speak to the seller about the car tomorrow and also make sure he understands the confusion that his description of the car could cause potential purchasers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleggy the Spyder Man Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 There was never any doubt that the engine was a Duratec - where it went wrong is that he has no mention in the advert other than a picture that it is a Duratec ST - so really IMO it is not 100% genuine honest advert If the advert said "with Duratec ST" engine I would be ok as that is what it is I agree with the other guys though, the engine that is in it is good, and as I originally said the car is a very good spec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffC Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 QUOTE THIS MUST BE ONE OF THE FASTEST WESTFIELDS OUT THERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterg Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 QUOTE so really IMO it is not 100% genuine honest advert but that was my point all along, there is nothing dishonest about his advert as I said before, it's only because 'we' refer only to the 'all alloy' I4 version as a Duratec that you base that assumption on BUT, Ford call it a Duratec (albeit an 'ST') so that's what it is the guy has been upfront with the caller saying that it's a warmed over Zetec but called a Duratec ST and there is a ruddy great photo showing the engine and where the exhaust comes out so where is there any dishonesty in that? if the seller had said it was a widebody and it turned out to be a narrow, that would be dishonest but as far as I'm concerned it's 100% honest and genuine, if a perhaps a little optiomistic on pricing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedditchJay Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I agree... priced too high for the spec of the engine...leading you to think or assume its something else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleggy the Spyder Man Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 this could go backwards and forwards forever anyone for ping pong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikpro Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I have run into a quandary regarding the front callipers fitted to my car, a 2006 1800 Zetec Sport that I built from a modular factory kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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