" Lets Help Residuals Thread "

[Robandcolin]

Rob

Right idea, wrong direction. If it's gaining a broader audience and enlightening them to the benefits of Westfield ownership we/Westfield need to be targeting Joe Bloggs not those already interested track day outings - these guys will already know about Westfields.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen write ups on Caterhams, but I've never seen a write up on a Westy outside of a kitcar mag. Is there a reason why Westy's shouldn't grace the pages of Auto Express, TopGear, and the countless other 'generic' car mags?

I belive its the right Idea name me one large manufacturer who hasn't had sales increase due to high profile motorsport.

Now I know Speed series isn't high profile but it could be higher and if you get Joe Bloggs along to watch (which he invariably might if it was just round the corner and advertised sufficiently) who will think wow I want one of those. Be it road or track spec you will get a sale.

If Renault used your logic they would say whats the point of F1 Joe Bloggs isn't going to want an F1 car.

Rob

[Blatman]

No, but as I have just said, as "keepers" of the brand we need (as a group, if that is what is to happen) to pick a starting point. My comments are not aimed at you specifically, you just happen to be posting your opinion. It counts equally for anyone, especially the fella who's selling hs Zetec car for under 8 grand at the moment...

The problem comes when a keeper becomes a seller and then wants to shift their car for whatever reason. If I was in a position to help prop up the prices (or keep them at their rightful level depending how how you look at it) then the chances are I wouldn't be in a position where I had to sell. Due to the luxury nature of the cars you will always be in a situation where there will be sufficient sellers who are prepared to take less money because they want to either free up the cash or move on to the next project sooner rather than later. With the best will in the world I can't see how you can get around that. Added to that you will find people like me who picked up a winter bargain and can afford to sell their cars at a knock down price simply because it just doesn't owe them as much money as it would the original builder. We can definitely talk up the westfield name and the cars because frankly they're bl**** brilliant and it takes no effort and doesn't stretch the imagination and maybe that'll increase demand but there's nothing you can do about the odd car that's a bit cheaper than the rest.

I really do feel that it's just a quiet patch though and things will pick up, the cheap cars will go and the status quo will be restored.

Regards,

Mark

I agree that there will always be exceptions to the residual rule. What I am saying is that each and every one of us, from the seller to the next person who has something to say, needs to *say* that it's a bargain, rather than just say it's cheap because we have poor residuals. It sends the wrong message. Most folk who buy Westfields will be ABC1's, so they'll be asking "Why is it so cheap? What's wrong with it?" What they should be asking is "10K for a car that good? Bargain..." Image and brand awareness every time...

If we want to push values up to a more sensible level, then it *is* time we started thinking about the brand, and it is time we started behaving like it mattered. But we have to start somewhere, so why not with the next person who puts a for sale ad up. Then the next, then the next, etc. In 3 months time there'll be a bunch of Westfields for sale at the right money and buyers will have no choice but to pay proper money *unless a bargain like Derns (or whoever) comes along*. Is it really that hard to work out?

[Blatman]

Rob

Right idea, wrong direction. If it's gaining a broader audience and enlightening them to the benefits of Westfield ownership we/Westfield need to be targeting Joe Bloggs not those already interested track day outings - these guys will already know about Westfields.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen write ups on Caterhams, but I've never seen a write up on a Westy outside of a kitcar mag. Is there a reason why Westy's shouldn't grace the pages of Auto Express, TopGear, and the countless other 'generic' car mags?

I belive its the right Idea name me one large manufacturer who hasn't had sales increase due to high profile motorsport.

Now I know Speed series isn't high profile but it could be higher and if you get Joe Bloggs along to watch (which he invariably might if it was just round the corner and advertised sufficiently) who will think wow I want one of those. Be it road or track spec you will get a sale.

If Renault used your logic they would say whats the point of F1 Joe Bloggs isn't going to want an F1 car.

Rob

Speed Series is NOT the right vehicle for brand awareness. This web site, along with the factory web site, is. It starts and ends with what we say and how we behave, and it starts and ends here...

[Muttleys V8]

Shall I put my car up for sale now on the site?

[Knightmare]

I belive its the right Idea name me one large manufacturer who hasn't had sales increase due to high profile motorsport.

Now I know Speed series isn't high profile but it could be higher and if you get Joe Bloggs along to watch (which he invariably might if it was just round the corner and advertised sufficiently) who will think wow I want one of those. Be it road or track spec you will get a sale.

If Renault used your logic they would say whats the point of F1 Joe Bloggs isn't going to want an F1 car.

Rob

Sorry Rob but the trick here is to educate and raise awareness about the Westfield brand and 'niche' motorsports however exciting - and the Speed Series is that - isn't going to do this.

We need to promote Westfield first, then tell the general public about the fact that we race them too.

F1 and the like are a completely different kettle of fish as they showcase technilogical advancements and promote manufacturers committment to those advances which then waters down into their commercial interests.

[Boomy]

I belive its the right Idea name me one large manufacturer who hasn't had sales increase due to high profile motorsport.

I have to admit i have always been curious about the sort of sales motorsport generates.

It is something i have talked about before simply because i have never ever, not once, met a single person, or been told of any who purchased a car due to any form of motorsport.

I honestly believe it never even enters peoples heads in the vast majority of cases.

Maybe that was the case 30 years ago back when most cars fell apart on a regular basis, so seeing a Saab or Mk1 surviving a rally boosted sales, but today, i'm not so sure.

[scooby]

Some people do have an odd idea about HELPING.

Yeah you all have valid points but why are you so against TRYING to help our market.

You seem defeated before you try..... Sorry but i am not like that..

Try being a tiger for a day Not a sheep for the rest of your life........

[Blatman]

Motorsport is brand awareness par excellence. The BMW Sauber isn't a BMW, the Mercedes Mclarens aren't Mercedes. Toyota and Honda are doing it for the technical challenge *as well as* to sell cars by making sure that the name on peoples lips is Honda or Toyota, *regardless* (almost) of the reasons. The manufacturers pay to brand the cars so that the public see and say the name. The *best* example of brand awareness is Hoover. How many of us reach for the Hoover, rather than the vacuum cleaner? Hoover is a brand name, not a generic term, but the marketing was soooo good, it stuck and became an acceptable term for use when referring to *any other manufacturers* vacuum cleaner.

In our small part of the world, you really have to tip your hat to Caterham, because we've *all* had folk ask us "Is it a Caterham?", becasue that's the car they've heard of. Now, I'm sure the factory team are doing their level best to get the Westfield name out there, but it's a slow and expensive process. WE need to start shouting the word WESTFIELD loudly and proudly until folk sit up and take note.

[scruffythefirst]

QUOTE

In our small part of the world, you really have to tip your hat to Caterham, because we've *all* had folk ask us "Is it a Caterham?", becasue that's the car they've heard of. Now, I'm sure the factory team are doing their level best to get the Westfield name out there, but it's a slow and expensive process. WE need to start shouting the word WESTFIELD loudly and proudly until folk sit up and take note.

Your not doing too badly, one of my mates repetedly called my dax a wesfield untill I gave him a slap

[Blatman]

I'd like to review that answer in 12 months...

[jeff oakley]

I am with you Scooby and I will not sell mine for a penny less than it is worth, if I ever sell. We cannot dictate what people sell for unfortunatly but can try to steer the prices.

Now as for the "brand" Westfield are in it to sell cars in kit or complete, they did us no favors when they brought out the SDV (no offence to anyone who has one) but at the shows you see the advert build one for £7999 IIRC complete. So show goers now have a price of £8k in mind for a new car. The same will happen with the new SDV MX5 version it will be priced competitivly. Now I understand why they need to do this to compete with the myriad locost operators but again it lowers the percieved value unless you see the reasons. If you look at the two cars SDV against say a sports 2000 unless you know the brand will you see two similar cars with huge price differentials or the truth that they are chalk and cheese one budget driven one the pinnicle of the design.

We can do lots, the website as discussed before can appear to be a little clicky at first, at local meets do we activly seek out new members by attending car shows and talking to people? We need new people to keep the brand going, theres only so many cars current members will buy and to some young lads our cars are dinosaurs, until you show them the Throttle Bodies, and take them out for a quick blast, they change their minds. When Terry Nightingale was around there were two scources for price comparrisons and his were never budget now we have the factory and an odd person who dabbles. we should try to have a pricing guide as a club. Surly we could come up with something if there is enough will to do it, I would be happy to try to get something going but I suspect there will be a reason why the club cannot get involved offically. Any thoughts?

[Boomy]

The *best* example of brand awareness is Hoover. How many of us reach for the Hoover, rather than the vacuum cleaner? Hoover is a brand name, not a generic term, but the marketing was soooo good, it stuck and became an acceptable term for use when referring to *any other manufacturers* vacuum cleaner.

In our small part of the world, you really have to tip your hat to Caterham, because we've *all* had folk ask us "Is it a Caterham?", becasue that's the car they've heard of.

Isn't that more to do with the fact that they were the first of their kind though as apposed to exceptional marketing etc?.

In the same way people still said "walkman" for years even though they had no idea it was a Sony product and held a JVC in their hand, or how people say "he's in the crapper" or "that is crap" without realising the word relates to Thomas Crapper?.

What i mean is, when i say "have you got any Coke?", it really doesn't matter to me what i get, so long as it is coke like.That is based apon the fact that i probably heard the word coke very early on, much like people only heard the word Hoover because that's all there was, so it just became synonymous with that product.

The same can be said of the caterham, was it clever marketing or just like the walkman/hoover, was it just something quite revolutionary available to the masses and the name stuck?.

[MVS]

Two suggestions:

1-

To increase awareness contact the 'Hamster' (forget Clarkson he won't fit) @ Topgear with a good piece for  camera, somthing like a seasons racing or track days for £20k, auto testing, some big club / fun do. I'm sure they would go for it if they are spoon fed something. It couldn't make things worse.

Fifth gear or even the mainstream mags need the same, to put the brand in the motoring publics face to stimulate the brand. Kingswingford seem fairly neanderthal in their maketing approach IMHO.

2-

The price 'guide' thing is a reasonable idea, but could do with the factory backing it up with their own, on their site for factory built cars. Even if the one on their site was for 'basic factory' car with say a link to the club site one that was more extensive giving a guide to option/upgrade values it would give a reference point for newbies to base their own valuation of a give car for sale.

BUT  2. will only have any real effect after 1. has happened. Thats not to say 2. shouldn't already be in place

I am a late comer to the kit car market having wanted to build a seven for many years, I wanted to build a Westfield rather than a Caterham, so I must be slightly odd as I'm in the nearly 40 brigade, that seem to go for the Cateringvan 'heritage thing'. But I'd looked further than my nose-end. Mostly Joe-public is lead by their noses and the latest test/ article, So they need a little more leading by their noses.

Product placement is the other thing Kingswingford need to do. Get the 'Hamster' in a nice one for a weekend or someone who will give positive press.

Anyway just a newbies / outsiders view looking out lookin in as it were  

[Blatman]

Fifth gear or even the mainstream mags need the same, to put the brand in the motoring publics face to stimulate the brand. Kingswingford seem fairly neanderthal in their maketing approach IMHO

Er, a little digging around the stuff we have here at work and I find...

Evo Magazine building a kit

Feb issue = 5 pages

April issue = 4 pages

May issue = 2 pages

June issue = 2 pages

July issue = 3 pages

August issue = 4 pages

Practical classics

Building a car

Oct = 3 pages

Nov = 3 pages

Dec = 3 Pages

Jan = 3 Pages

Feb = 1 page

Mar = 3 pages

Evo Track day car of the year 2005

2 models Featured

Evo Driven section

New shape June 06

Auto car

November 4 pages

May 4 pages, and a conclusion coming soon.

Circuit driver

1600

Jan – 4 pages

Track and race car

1600

April 1600– 2 pages

April factory – 3 pages

CSMA 1600

Feb – 1 page

Kit Car 1600

Feb 06 – 6 pages

April 06 6 pages

Which Kit Car

Feb – 5 Pages

Classic and sports car

December 05 – 4 pages

Feb 06 - 1 page

Test Drive

March 06 – 4 pages

Auto car

New shape

March 06

Circuit Driver

New Shape and old shape

June 06 – 5 pages

Total kit car

XI

1600

FW shape

Sport 2000s

Topgear.com

1 page

My thanks to a switched on PR person for some definitve information. Neanderthal? Hardly. Seems like a fair effort when you consider that the factory, with limited resources, have to go punting around. I'm quite sure the press aren't begging them for copy...

I'm also staggered at the arrogance of thinking that the Westfield PR people haven't already thought of that, as if it's as simple as asking Hammond to get involved and he'll just say yes. goodness me...

[Barry Ashcroft]

QUOTE

So show goers now have a price of £8k in mind for a new car.

DING

How right you are Jeff!!

How knackered am I if I try to sell  

I can see peoples reluctance to post for sale ad's on here and that is a problem we need to address (And I admit that I have made comments in the past) This place should be the right place to advertise your car but more cars are going on other sites than this one.