" Lets Help Residuals Thread "

[juansolo]

Ask yourselves what a Westfield is. Is it a sports car, a race car, a weekend toy? You can't answer this simply because Westfield tries to cater for all

This is actually the crux of the problem as is what the majority of 7's are bought as is an allrounder.  A weekend toy, maybe for the odd trackday and/or sprint.  I was guilty of this myself 6 years ago as before you own one of these things, you simply don't really know what you want.

Through ownership you decide in the direction you want to go and at *that* point it becomes unsellable to a newbie.  Bias it too far to road use and it becomes a pain for the newbie who wants to track it as they have to start changing mechanicals and beefing it up for track use.  To far to track use and it's just unpleasant as a road car without undoing all the track bits.  It's a difficult balance to achive and one that I feel very few 7's actually pull off (the original Caterham Superlight comes to mind and... well, that's about it).  Build a good allrounder, that's lightly used and it'll sell.  

The problem comes when selling a car like mine...  My market is someone who's got into trackdays probably in their road car and wants to up the ante with a track only car without breaking the bank.  Not neccesarily someone looking specifically for a Westie.  Anyone in the market for a Westfield isn't going to buy mine because they'll want to use it on the road.  Which is where the confusion comes because they think a road Westie is extreme...  

I know this because I've been through it with the Snotmobile which in my opinion *was* a good allrounder, we set it up specifically as that. Still people who turned up to see it branded it too raw?!  As I say, the problem is that people who haven't run one of these cars before, don't actually know what they want yet...

[Knightmare]

We need to get back to a point where the focus is on Westfield as a name, and the fact that it represents the best Se7en replica around by miles whatever your passion may be.

The assumption you and others have made is that caterham are the best and westfield are the second best

That's not the assumption I'm making at all, but Westfield started out making replicas of the Se7en. No matter which way you look at it or how severely you modify the look, it is based on that original design. Caterham owners pay a premium because they feel it's worth it for the history and in someway that makes it a better car - if that's their view then fair enough. I paid my money for a Westy for a variety of reasons and quality of kit/build was my main consideration.

[Blatman]

The day the average bloke on the streets puts the interest of others over their own interests I'll give my car away.

But we aren't the average bloke on the street. We are the exception, not the rule. Why not show that our cars are equally exceptional?

[scooby]

We seem to be getting puled off track here. I agree with most of the comments put up, but we can do something about this.

We do need to stick to the idea's that Westfields are ALL well built with sound and good heritage. We need to realise that the market place is made by us and broken by us.

Westfields are a hobby/passtime/plaything whatever , BUT its a QUALITY ONE AND WE NEED TO PROTECT THAT QUALITY.

Its not going to happen overnight but with consideration and thought before speech it can be done.

[Blatman]

QUOTE

The problem comes when selling a car like mine...  My market is someone who's got into trackdays probably in their road car and wants to up the ante with a track only car without breaking the bank.  Not neccesarily someone looking specifically for a Westie.  Anyone in the market for a Westfield isn't going to buy mine because they'll want to use it on the road.  Which is where the confusion comes because they think a road Westie is extreme...  

Nail/head interface...

[Knightmare]

Westfields are a hobby/passtime/plaything whatever , BUT its a QUALITY ONE AND WE NEED TO PROTECT THAT QUALITY.

My point exactly - QUALITY.

Enjoy it for what it is and never put in more money than you are prepared to loose.

You only need look at the huge modified car market to see this, some of these guys are spending 2 or 3 times the base price of their car in modifications. They’re not doing this to make money or limit depreciation, but to make a statement and what they put into it, is what they consider the benefis are worth.

The same is true here, the more heavily you modify (for whatever reason) the more you limit your resale market.

As long as Westfield do their bit and keep churning out decent kits, and we do ours by putting them together with care and attention to detail, surely residuals will take care of themselves.  

The only other way I can see we can help this is to keep promoting the brand as a club and keep providing an excellent source of knowledge to all those in need of help/advice.

[robthehungrymonkey]

Its not the owners. I think its more down to brand awareness and Marketing.

If you go down the street and ask people to Identify a picture of your car the 80% of people won't know what it is 19% will say its a caterham and the 1% probably an enthusiast will know its a westy.

Westfield themselves need to raise awareness of the brand to increase our residuals. We cannot do it ourselves. You can put all the prices up but you won't sell your cars to get a sale you need to undercut caterham. It's unfortunate but true.  

If westfield get a car on top gear for example then that will boost new sales and people who like it but can't afford a new one will buy your second hand ones.

Rob

I think you're exactly right.

As a new WEstfield owner, my 2p...

Westfield and Caterham are targeting the exact same market (near enough). The problem is, Caterham's cars are always in magazines, on telly etc. etc. And when a westy is in the mag, it's the most hardcore £35K sequential gearbox models. Which the majority of customers will not want, a halo model in magazines is fine, but not one so far removed from what the average person wants and when it's the only model they feature, aimed at serious track day kings with serious money to spend on a toy.

Yes, Caterham have the history, but when westfield has been around for so long, a lot of people I think would be tempted to go for a westy over a caterham if the cars had more exposure.

Maybe, Westifeld are doing this intentially? Maybe they don't want their cars directly compared head to head with caterham???

But if for example they had 2nd hand westy on top gear and showed what it could do and what performance you can get for £10K, imagine what that would do to residuals!

In my opinion, any sort of exposure is good for westfield as a brand ( i don't think they do nearly enough themselves), and there needs to be more if the company wants to develop.

I'd ruled out a Caterham as I couldn't afford it, and thought a westfield was "too cheap not to!" with insurance taken into account to (especially my age), there really wasn't any contest.

When I first mentioned the westy, my Dad's reply was "oh, I thought you wanted a "proper" caterham". Says it all really, he's not a car mad person, but still that's what your average person thinks.

[dern]

That's not the assumption I'm making at all

Ah, my apologies then  

[dern]

Westfields are a hobby/passtime/plaything whatever , BUT its a QUALITY ONE AND WE NEED TO PROTECT THAT QUALITY.

Its not going to happen overnight but with consideration and thought before speech it can be done.

I understand these points but as a seller I do not have the time or patience to wait for the price that helps accomplish this and will attempt to ensure that buyers are aware that compared to similar vehicles mine is damn good value in order to achieve a sale... and I'm pretty sure that most people would do the same.

[Robandcolin]

We need to realise that the market place is made by us and broken by us.

Its not though and there is bu@@er all you can do about it.

The public perception Knowledge etc is all wrong for our cars to retain strong residuals. Sorry but its true.  

The best way to deal with it remember a westy is for life not just for Christmas.

I for one will never sell mine.

Rob

[Blatman]

I understand these points but as a seller I do not have the time or patience to wait for the price that helps accomplish this and will attempt to ensure that buyers are aware that compared to similar vehicles mine is damn good value in order to achieve a sale... and I'm pretty sure that most people would do the same.

But then as a seller, you need to be prepeared to admit to yourself that you are the cheap exception to the residual rule. We won't all be the same as you. May I suuggest that you're frustration at the car not selling yet is possibly clouding what may be a more impartial view if you were keeping the car a bit longer. I can certainly see where you're coming from, but there is a bigger picture here which we are trying to explore and understand a bit better so that we don't all end up in a similar position, IE we have a good car to sell, but the general public think they are simply expensive Robin Hoods.

I would even dare to suggest that the advert be worded to reflect that someone is getting a serious bargain as Westfields with ths sort of performance don't come up often, and when they do, they are *much* more expensive. You *should* winkle out a bargain hunter whilst at the same time laying down some future customer expectation. Everyone wins...

[juansolo]

From an unbiased POV:

Caterhams are built to a consistantly high standard and on the whole are all built to a similar specification per model.  You know what you're getting barring odd spec options.

Westfields are built to a much more variable standard ranging from much better to much worse than a Caterham.  Spec-wise also they are infinitely more variable as you're not tied to making specific models/using specific components, as you are with a Caterham.

Essentially with a Caterham you know what you're getting, with a Westie you need to know what you're getting into which is why newbies gravitate towards Caterhams and why they hold their value as they're less likely to be b*******ed about with by their owners.

The more shrewd buyer can get every bit as good a Westfield, with much more bang-per-buck than an equivalently priced Caterham.  It's swings and roundabouts.  If the new Caterham C400 was half the money it is I'd be buying one of them as my next car, as it is it'll be another Westfield that's half the cost, better specced and even quicker.

[Morbius]

How much is a turn key car from ? Westfield about £18000

SO WHY ARE THEY DROPPING by OVER 1/2 in two years...........OUR FAULT GUYS

There is a 2004 built SEW for sale at the moment for £7950 what a bargain but what a ball ache for prices. It should be a £11000-£12000 car all day long.

All cars except rare exotica lose a minimum of 20% of their price as soon as they are sold:

a) because they are no longer new, and:

b) because there is no VAT to pay on secondhand cars.

People in general are chary of buying anything with a Q plate, and don't understand the benefits of a Q plated kit-car (I certainly did not before I read these pages).

With all the Chavved-up tin-tops out there, people also fight shy of any modified car, which puts us all on dodgy ground because every Westfield is unique: even those built by the factory to a 'standard' spec do not stay so for long.

Finally,

Who really buys a Westfield as an investment?  The whole point of the car is to get out there and drive it!  The people who run classic cars get the same problem: they never recoup the money that they put into restoring the car, unless it is an extremely rare highly prized marque like an Aston or Gull-wing Merc 300SL.

Remember, Gravity is a myth, the earth sucks  

[Robandcolin]

But then as a seller, you need to be prepeared to admit to yourself that you are the cheap exception to the residual rule. We won't all be the same as you. May I suuggest that you're frustration at the car not selling yet is possibly clouding what may be a more impartial view if you were keeping the car a bit longer. I can certainly see where you're coming from, but there is a bigger picture here which we are trying to explore and understand a bit better so that we don't all end up in a similar position, IE we have a good car to sell, but the general public think they are simply expensive Robin Hoods.

I would even dare to suggest that the advert be worded to reflect that someone is getting a serious bargain as Westfields with ths sort of performance don't come up often, and when they do, they are *much* more expensive. You *should* winkle out a bargain hunter whilst at the same time laying down some future customer expectation. Everyone wins...

But thats only scratching the surface of the much deaper underlying problem of public perception.

Alot of people in the market for a car such as derns will not even get far enough to read the advert or even look for the advert. It's a nice thought but in the grand scheme of things it won't make any difference.

Rob

[Blatman]

QUOTE

But thats only scratching the surface of the much deaper underlying problem of public perception.

But we have to start somewhere. We won't ever get anything done if that reasoning is applied...