steve_m Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Why do owners undervalue their cars when Westfield don't ? The above link will take you to Westfields pre-owned cars section and you can see a 2003 1800 Zetec is still for sale at £11,250 - they might take £10,000 for it I suppose worst case but that's still a good £3k more than private sellers are achieving. Isn't that the same for most car dealers though? There is a reason people often buy privately, i always assumed that was the reason. I can see that a private seller would need to undercut the factory but asking so much less seems to be giving it away. A similar privately sold Dax Rush would be around the price Westfield are asking and would sell for £10k or maybe even more. I've seen Megabusa cars go for a lot more and even Megablade's go for £10k to £11k don't they ? Is it just the car engned models that are lower ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomy Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I can see that a private seller would need to undercut the factory but asking so much less seems to be giving it away. Maybe it's just a 'factory' thing and down to the nature of the cars, i.e the finish, overall quality etc etc. Perhaps in the same way that factory built cars seem to attract higher premiums, cars for sale by the factory can demand a higher price tag and may include other benefits to purchasers?. Plus, who knows what those sellers paid for their cars that are advertised for 3k less than the factory examples.Maybe they are almost breaking even?. Someone also mentioned that they don't seem to sell a lot of second hand cars these days at the factory, so maybe others are aware that there is little point in simply knocking off a standard car dealer mark up of say £700 to £1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dern Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I can see that a private seller would need to undercut the factory but asking so much less seems to be giving it away. A similar privately sold Dax Rush would be around the price Westfield are asking and would sell for £10k or maybe even more. I've seen Megabusa cars go for a lot more and even Megablade's go for £10k to £11k don't they ? Is it just the car engned models that are lower ? If you're not planning on selling then what difference does it make how much cars are going for? If you are planning on selling then ask what you like for your car. Asking other people to raise the price of their cars in order that you get more for your own is utterly absurd. If a car is under priced then it will not be on sale for long enough to affect your sale. If, however, the market can't take the prices you believe are right and proper the cheaper car will not be bought immediately and your own car priced higher than the 'bargain' will be on sale for even longer. Prices are based on demand, it's as simple as that and currently the demand would not appear to sufficient to support the prices that it would appear the majority of people would like. Regards, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robandcolin Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 In the World of second hand cars its a buyers market has been fo years. The Market is Flooded with cars pf all types so values are going to be low in order to sell. If you want prices to rise stop buying new cars and stop selling the ones you have. Unfortunatly with the society we live in everyone wants a new car to show off in. So we are trapped in a downward spiral It's only going to get worse and nothing we do can change that. Lock the threads if you like it won't make Bu@@er all difference though. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Factory cars will always attract a certain type of buyer, someone who has money but not the time to build one themselves. So if you got to the factory to buy a new one at say £20k and you see one for say 16k which is as new then you have saved £4k on a toy. It is a buyers market as there will always be more cars than buyers at top dollar but that is no reason to give em away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_m Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 If the market was that bad then Westfield wouldn't have their cars up for so much would they ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I disagree slightly with Dern on it being a simple case of market forces. We should also consider the brand. In the Se7en pecking order, rightly or wrongly Caterham's command the best prices. Westfield should be commanding the next highest. Westfields *are* better made and have a better brand name than Robin Hood, Quantum, LoCost etc etc, and we need to make sure that is reflected in the residuals. If you can buy a Westfield for Robin Hood money, who benefits? Certainly not Westfield owners. Probably not the Westfield brand which is being devalued as a consequence. We, as owners, *almost* have a duty to the brand we have bought in to, not just for personal benefit, but for the benefit of the brand. Caterham owners certainly seem to realise this more than Westfield owners do. Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dern Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 We, as owners, *almost* have a duty to the brand we have bought in to, not just for personal benefit, but for the benefit of the brand. The day the average bloke on the streets puts the interest of others over their own interests I'll give my car away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robandcolin Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Its not the owners. I think its more down to brand awareness and Marketing. If you go down the street and ask people to Identify a picture of your car the 80% of people won't know what it is 19% will say its a caterham and the 1% probably an enthusiast will know its a westy. Westfield themselves need to raise awareness of the brand to increase our residuals. We cannot do it ourselves. You can put all the prices up but you won't sell your cars to get a sale you need to undercut caterham. It's unfortunate but true. If westfield get a car on top gear for example then that will boost new sales and people who like it but can't afford a new one will buy your second hand ones. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Same goes for my race car. I'd get more breaking it than complete, despite it being 100% road legal if not exactly 100% road friendly... You are me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 My tuppence. Before putting mine up for sale I asked a few more knowledgeable friends of mine what they thought it was worth in the current market and that's how I came to the price it's for sale at. To me it's worth more, and in all honesty if I was in the market for a track car in that sort of price range I'd buy mine and I'd pay up to £8k for it because that's what it's worth to me and it's a fair price for what you're getting. It's at £7k to sell it which I personally think is too cheap, but still it's not selling... Likewise the car I'm replacing it with in the current market is probably worth £2k less than I'll be paying for it. Mad you might think but it's the car I want and it's worth the price the seller wants for it. In respect of; like me, he wouldn't actually sell it for less and to me for what I'll be getting, in that it's exactly the car I want, built to a standard that's far, far higher than I could do myself. There just isn't the demand for cars like mine. The people who are just getting into these cars don't want a pure track car (certainly not initially) and the market reflects that. I know that the car I'm buying is going to depreciate like f**k for exactly the same reason. *shrugs* that's cars for you, I can accept that. My Subaru lost about £5k just drving it off the forecourt. In conclusion: market and demand drives the price. If people think your car is too expensive, they won't buy it. Likewise if you want to sell your car quick, you'll have to make it attractive by dropping the price significantly. I don't think there's a damn thing we can do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul M Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Have to agree with the sentiments on this thread. I have often wanted to build another but can't face the thought of selling mine for so little. It's a sad state of affairs when the best way to get a decent car is to buy one that someone else has lost thousands on and then break your own for parts cos that's the only way to get a decent price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightmare Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 As a relatively new owner and having read through the responses here I think there are a number of factors worth considering. Factory build cars: Appeal to the perfectionist but not necessarily the mechanically minded. These guys are happy to pay a premium for the assumption that they've got a 'safe reliable car' somewhat akin to buying new from a dealer, and are happy to accept the depreciation. Private sales: In my mind these split into 2 catagories, those with mechanical knowledge that want to move to the next level (maybe sprints/races), and those who can't afford the factory option. The one thing both of these have in common is that they WILL want to stamp their own identity all over their new pride and joy. This means that they will want to change and modify to their own taste and any modifications previously made no matter how extreme arn't going to make that much difference to the price. When I was looking I saw plenty of cars in my price bracket but many were so highly tuned they put me off. What I was interested in and kept being told by the members of this forum was 'BUILD QUALITY'. That's what's going to help residuals and very little else. At the end of the day Se7ens have the history and Westfields have the reputation of being the best reproduction of, and build quality goes a long way in reflecting that. Agree or not a good 'honest' car will always fetch a fair price, but the sheer amount of variety provided by Westfield today has flooded and 'confused' the market. Ask yourselves what a Westfield is. Is it a sports car, a race car, a weekend toy? You can't answer this simply because Westfield tries to cater for all, and this in turn has confussed the brand and lowered prices. We need to get back to a point where the focus is on Westfield as a name, and the fact that it represents the best Se7en replica around by miles whatever your passion may be. Rant over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_m Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 ... and the fact that it represents the best Se7en replica around by miles whatever your passion may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dern Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 We need to get back to a point where the focus is on Westfield as a name, and the fact that it represents the best Se7en replica around by miles whatever your passion may be. The assumption you and others have made is that caterham are the best and westfield are the second best but if you search through this site you'll find loads of threads pointing out that there's no way a caterham is worth a significant amount over a westfield. Sure their position in terms of the view of the general public of their superiority and how this reflects on value is enviable but is it justifiable? Likewise, it it really justifiable that any given westfield is really worth substantially more than a well built MK? You'll find plenty of people on the locost site who'll argue that it isn't. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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