Blatman Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 It seems that the shocker stiffness can be a big deal. I would only consider ATB if gave better traction in the wet which doesn't seem to be the case. Then you missed the point, don't understand how LSD's work despite our best efforts, and will forever be slower than everyone else who has one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
congorobot Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I never thought that I would be saying this but I dont think that I would have crashed my car if I had had lsd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Mack Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Sorry Blatters, I disagree. It isn't that black and white. If there are problems controlling the car in the wet (not caused by the drivers right foot) then that should be sorted first. If, on the other hand, the problem is that you can't get the power down out of the corners without spinning the wheels or messy oversteer then an ATB will probably work wonders (it did for me). James is a good example. With hindsight he would have had a lot less grief sorting his suspension first, then fitting the ATB. As it was he did both in the end so there was no harm done but I got the impression he didn't like the learning experience On the other hand, if the only problem is a brother who can't drive lightweight RWD cars then fit the ATB and ban him from driving it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 James is a good example. With hindsight he would have had a lot less grief sorting his suspension first, then fitting the ATB. As it was he did both in the end so there was no harm done but I got the impression he didn't like the learning experience I was a little frustrated with the learning experiance from the point of view that there wasnt alot of outside help offering enough information as what the ATB could do to the handling, now I know this comes down to a wjole host of variables but for example :- the gentleman that sold me the ATB said there would be no changes in the handling of the car what so ever, this poved not to be the case as the rear suspension was so firm that the engery wanted to send the car side way's and therefore breaking traction (Not helped by the cheap crapy tyres that were fitted) when I went back to him he the saked what spring rates I was running and was only informed at that point (after fitting the ATB) that "I had made a live axel car hyperactive" hence the problem and I should change the rear springs to 100lbs which did sort the problem out but I was then informed I should change the shocks to his etc, I did start to feel that this chap saw me as an easy meal ticket which is why I dont use him anymore. If he had asked the questions up front "what have you got?" "what are you running" What springs are fitted" etc I could have been given all the facts and asociated costs up front and to be fair had I had this info I probably wouldent have gone for it. BUT Now I have it sorted tha car is a joy to drive and I belive that the car has been easyier to controll as a result, this has saved my bacon on one ocassion and I therefore truly belive it has therefore paid for itself, it does deliver better traction in both the dry and wet, if your car is a little hairy in the wet the I would sugest I good look at what the suspension is doing or not doing may pay dividends. Remeber If you lose controll of the rear end with an open diff chances are you wont recover and the car will spin posibly hitting something (Matt Williams would agree with this after are auto test session last year his is a open diff about to be changed to an ATB) with the ATB in the diff you will be able to recover 9 times out of ten if not all. I am more than happy to let you know ALL the changes I had to make to my car to put you in the picture, if you wish to know p.m me but I wouldent discount the idea sure money pay's a big part BUT I dont think you would regreat the desicion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Just to add after my car was fitted with softer springs All the local lads played with there setups and made the shocks softer, in some case's have softer springs have been fitted all to good afect, these drivers have all said that the cars handle far better with more suspension movement so it may be worth you looking at suspension any way as this could be playing a large part in the handling charecteristics of your car, but the ATB would IMHO be the long term way to go I have more faith in my car now than I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detailer Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 It seems that the shocker stiffness can be a big deal. I would only consider ATB if gave better traction in the wet which doesn't seem to be the case. Then you missed the point, don't understand how LSD's work despite our best efforts, and will forever be slower than everyone else who has one... I've never spun the car in the wet yet even on poor setup and crap tyres. Speed is not the problem. My brother is LOL! As one have you have said "just ban him from driving it" is probably the best solution and save 400 quid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detailer Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 Latest update. Spoke to mechanic who has raced for years. Said that racing westfields run on live axel and not to use LSD or ATB as it will make the rear lively which explains James's problems spinning going into roundabouts. Looks like Live axel the best way. Mechanic said LSD good on heavier car but not on Seven type motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sorry, but sounds like b*llox to me; though readily admit, I may just be a really crap driver! (the LSD bit that is, not the live axle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Looks like Live axel the best way. Mechanic said LSD good on heavier car but not on Seven type motor Can't speak for live axle, but on my 2 litre Zetec car, it was almost impossible to get traction out of corners without the LSD, because you just end up with the inside wheel spinning away all the power. The Sierra viscous LSD made a world of difference. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wood Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Can't speak for live axle, but on my 2 litre Zetec car, it was almost impossible to get traction out of corners without the LSD, because you just end up with the inside wheel spinning away all the power. The Sierra viscous LSD made a world of difference. Having recently carried out this upgrade these are my thoughts exactly. Don't know why I didn't fit an LSD in the first place. Plenty of them on EBAY - just go for it. (unless you have got a live axle, which means a bit more money) Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Remeber If you lose controll of the rear end with an open diff chances are you wont recover and the car will spin posibly hitting something (Matt Williams would agree with this after are auto test session last year his is a open diff about to be changed to an ATB) with the ATB in the diff you will be able to recover 9 times out of ten if not all. errr why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detailer Posted February 23, 2006 Author Share Posted February 23, 2006 I've never had a problem spinning the inside wheel to date round circuits. I was only looking at ATB for wet weather driveability/traction (for my brother ). Maybe with Zetec's and VX's you are fighting it more as there is more power than grip. The Xflow engine we have has around 150 bhp after the winter mods so I guess I'll just have to wait and see. I recently drove a VX powered westie with LSD and I was amazed how easy the back stepped out going through a roundabout applying very little power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V 8 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Just to add my 2pennorth. I see little point in fitting an LSD of any sort, if the car is for normal road use. If you want to steer on the throttle, or do doughnuts, or it bothers you that the inside wheel may spin on occasion, don't bother!! A plate diff will give you an element of understeer, an ATB will not get you out of a muddy hole, a viscous LSD is an alround good bet if you have to have one, and they are cheap as chips, but only available in IRS. HTH JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philsugrue Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Quaiffe LSD on a live axled 1800 zetec with a 4.1 diff..........I love the way my car drives, on the road and on the track, my rear suspension is almost a soft as it will go.........so must be down to personal choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Sorry, but sounds like b*llox to me; though readily admit, I may just be a really crap driver! (the LSD bit that is, not the live axle) I agree sounds like the advice from a man who maybe hasnt actually tried it the point of the lsd diff is to make the car more contollable and alow you to get the power down it does this brilliantly my problem with roundabouts was simply down to the rear suspension being FAR to stiff with no compliance this sent all the energy sideway's with softer springs this problem went away. Look its your money so you must make the choice (I would however treat your mechanic's advise with a very large pinch of salt, there are far to many self confessed experts out there and if he race's what does he race and how are his results? in other words is he a credable expert?) I think if you fitted an ATB you would neither regreat it or look back as they are great but in order for you to apreciate there benefit you need to experiance them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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