steppenwolf Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I'm with Blatters on this one. Just for the record, no one has queried if this post is actually from Den Tanner or just a wind-up merchant! I can confirm that it IS genuinely from him. Not that it matters much to me as I am for deleting the thread anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I'm with Blatters on this one. No, still doesn't feel right........ Mornin' Stepps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitcarman Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Please Folks, Listen to yourselves! Not one of you has so much as hinted at apologising for saying, or going along with the suggestion, that my magazine contains slander. Many harp-on about the slagging going on for years, when in-fact so far as Kit Car is concerned it started in June of this year. The slagging which took place before that was in fact slander and was accepted as such in the High Court of Justice. It was an entirely one-sided vendetta waged against me and my company by an absolute liar and cheat. Somebody suggested that I involve the PCC. Well I did. Their first rule says that the outcome of any legal action against a magazine will be published by that magazine. When I asked the PCC to enforce that rule I was told that because I’m also a publisher they’ll take no action. So instead of apologising in print, Fibs has been saying that he didn’t loose the action and that I was ‘spineless’ in publishing the outcome. Anybody sympathise with me? I also asked the advertising standards authority (ASA) to deal with a number of false advertising claims that were being made by Fib’s. They agreed with me, told Fib’s to stop, but he didn’t. I then found out that the ASA work by asking the publisher to withdraw the ‘wrong’ advertising of rogue advertisers. When the rogue advertiser is the rogue publisher, they’re stuck. Any sympathy yet? As I said, I started my campaign a mere 5 issues ago, have only said truthful things, yet face a situation were people such as you report that I’m as bad as Fib’s and equally to blame. I think you’d be miffed if you were in my position. Is anybody in the least sympathetic yet? For the reasons stated above (and a few others) I lost my rag when I learnt that Fibs had called me a liar to one specific advertiser in respect to my accurately published circulation figures. He’d also published a report in Which Kit? to the effect that Kit Car had ‘dubious standards’ that were ‘tarnishing’ Which Kit?’s reputation. How would you react in my situation? Result – I lost it. 5 years of pent-up emotion got summarised into the 5 pages of TRUTHFUL comment that you’re now passing judgement on. On other forums I’ve admitted that it all got too emotional, too personal and too extensive. I’m only human. However, unlike Fibs I’m an honest human who lost patience. Anybody empathise? Den. PS. I am me. At least I was when I looked in the mirror this morning. What evidence would you like? Mothers maiden name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenwolf Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 No, still doesn't feel right........ I know and it really hurt to admit it too but just this once I agree with you ....... As for everything else you've ever written ........ Morning Blatters Is anybody in the least sympathetic yet? Nope .... PS. I am me. At least I was when I looked in the mirror this morning. What evidence would you like? Mothers maiden name? Errr ..... I just confirmed that for earlier I thought? And so to work ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Elworthy Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Whoever you are behind that tag, frankly you are missing the point. By reading through this thread and various posts it is clear that: a) The readership is being turned off b) All we want is interesting / useful / entertaining content to enhance the enjoyment of Kit Cars in the UK. The message is loud & clear, avoid personal / competitor battles and increase the right stuff and ensure a happy readership and advertising base. I might even buy a copy myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Den We've all heard and read your comments in your magazine and now on this boardroom. No-one here have any axes to grind - we are merely commenting that enough is enough - time to move on and look forward. It is difficult at times but please don't confuse "passion" with critiscm You've won in court - rise above it and as I commented previous - use some positive marketing - it works Do you think Westfield and Caterham - both recognised market leaders would have survived and both become as successful as they are without some rivalry and and continued development of their products in a positive way - despite their previous differences. Mr Tanner - Please look forward and listen to your readers and clients next P.S. I'm not for deleting any postings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul M Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Time to move on and forget about it Den, if you want to win the battle just make your magazine far superior to his, market forces will take care of the rest. The constant b***hing and sniping just makes you look pathetic. I am gald to see that you have the kit buying customers interests at heart at last, when I bought my Westfield kit four years agon I was also tempted to build a V8 Sumo but was put off by the fact that Pilgrim where the only company charging a premium rate phone call for the technical helpline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilwillis Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 It can all be summed up in one often heard phrase....... My daddy's bigger than yours Can you not see how immature it is to continue with this? Regardless of the rights and wrongs of it, we buy magazines not to see who has the biggest circulation, or who is right or wrong about who said what. What we want, and should have every right to expect is a magazine that discusses the merits of the products we want to buy, and technical features about engines, gearboxes, and other necessary areas of interest. Any space wasted on tit for tat arguments, regardless of how justified you may feel is simply wasted space! Get a grip, and get back to what we want to see, it's as simple as that. Another ex-reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 In light of the facts quoted by Mr Tanner, I'm gonna withdraw my comment about wanting the thread deleted. Watching him chase individual customers aroud the internet, and begging for understanding, is far more entertaining than I thought it would be. Please continue....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitcarman Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Thanks for you permission, Blatman. . . . . Here’s round 3. Dear Chris Elworthy. Thank you. You’ve actually hit the nail on the head in your two observations:- a) The readership is being turned off My question is why? If, and we seem to agree on this, my words are true, then why should they be off-putting? My feeling is that what has been printed has not been understood. My explaining a few facts and matters here will hopefully clarify matters. In point of fact, I’d add that actually sales are on the increase – honestly! So again I just wish to see the misleading impression, given on this and other forums, corrected. b) All we want is interesting / useful / entertaining content to enhance the enjoyment of Kit Cars in the UK. That’s exactly what Kit Car contains. We are talking about 3% (5 out of 196) of it’s pages. The rest contain the “interesting / useful / entertaining” sections that you want. I’ve said that 5 pages was too much, but it surely follows that if 3% is too much then so would 2% or 1%. So what you appear to be saying is that you don’t want to hear the truth at all. Let me go further. These 5 pages contain a number of warnings. One of which is that Which Kit? does not have 50,000 readers nor is it “number one for selling kit cars”. For the life of me, I cannot understand why you feel my pointing this out is so awful. Each one of you shall one day sell your car, if only to get a newer one. Neither can I understand why you have a problem with my exposing the sham that is Razer. These two points surely have direct relevance to you as folk interested in Seven replicas. You’d presumably prefer that newbies brought Westfields rather than be ripped off? Everything else mentioned has relevance to some other group of kit car enthusiasts. When combined, even to the extent of 5 pages, I would have thought that genuine enthusiasts would support, rather than criticize me. Having said this, I’ve admitted that my techniques have been questionable and that I’ve gone too far after all other avenues failed. I’ve also explained here how I “threw my teddy” and on PistonHeads I’ve explained how I can’t immediately stop. The fact is that I have stopped is explained on the following PistonHeads thread. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing....118&h=0 I think you should, if this matter ever comes up for discussion again give credit to the fact that I’ve remained truthful and not describe my magazine as slanderous. That’s why I’m here. Finally, I believe Kit Car has considerably improved of late and sincerely believe that that fact should be acknowledged on this site too. Not solely for my benefit, but to encourage newbies. I understand that most folk stop reading kit car magazines after they’ve chosen and built their kits. So why don’t you say just that rather than implying it’s because of the over-egged issues discussed here. Competing magazines have always engaged in bun-fights and always will. My point is that you need to be adult in your analysis too! Den. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phssthpok Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 My point is that you need to be adult in your analysis too! ......Den, read up about Transactional Analysis (TA) and then reconsider the statement. ......as for your other points, I stopped buying your magazine, and your under-selling rival, because they became less and less relevant to me: and I am in the market to buy a new kit. I would agree with Mark's comments: don't get even, just get better. As for sympathy, stop acting like a pair of Jessies and get on with producing magazines that I might want to look at; breasts and motorcycles would be a good starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb893 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Stepps, are you being a bad boy? JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westfieldman Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Den/kitcarman Please can you put as much effort into the magazine as you are here and other web sites then the mag may be worth buying. There are enough F.A.Q. here to keep you and ten men busy for months writing articles on. Tyre tests Brake pad tests merits of engine types Wheel weight dater base Usefull supliers of parts ie. gearboxes, engines. trim, seats, Track day preperation Driving tips The list is endless Look how Westfield have developed over the years after the court case with Caterham and how Caterham have stayed the same almost. No need to reply to this post just put all your efforts into the mag. Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 The readership is being turned off My question is why? If, and we seem to agree on this, my words are true, then why should they be off-putting? My feeling is that what has been printed has not been understood. My explaining a few facts and matters here will hopefully clarify matters. It would if we actually cared. The point is, we don't. Your feelings on the matter are wrong. Plain and simple. You’d presumably prefer that newbies brought Westfields rather than be ripped off? This is the Westfield Sports car Club. What did you expect? And yes, thanks for pointing out that any other Se7en is a rip off. That'll make you popular among the LoCost/Tiger/Caterham folk that we have around here. Talk about poor phrasing. I’ve admitted that my techniques have been questionable and that I’ve gone too far after all other avenues failed. I’ve also explained here how I “threw my teddy” and on PistonHeads I’ve explained how I can’t immediately stop. Rubbish. If you wanted to stop, you wouldn't have registered here as a user to start posting. You could have e-mailed those people who you thought were being defamatory, and asked them to write a correction, or retraction. So, if you want to stop, do so. Prove it by not responding anymore, and getting back to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenwolf Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 As the thread isn't apparently going to be pulled I'll continue. I understand that most folk stop reading kit car magazines after they’ve chosen and built their kits. So why don’t you say just that rather than implying it’s because of the over-egged issues discussed here. Den, you really are missing some important advice here me ol' fruit..... I completed my build in Jan 2000 and only after that did I take out a subscription to your magazine so when I say that I didn't renew my subscription because of the infighting, I meant it - that was the sole reason! You MUST start listening to your (ex)readers. I had the choice of taking out a subscription to Which Kit? or Kit Car and for what it is worth, I chose your magazine because I found the content more interesting and better written with slightly less 'pap' than your competitor. The quality of the production was not IMHO as good as Which Kit? but the content was better and that is what I want in a magazine - I'm not too fussed about the pretty colours and clever production techniques, it what is written inside that I am happy to pay for. I have been involved in 'sales' all my working life and one of the first lessons that I was taught by a great salesman was NEVER KNOCK YOUR COMPETITION! This is a rule I have lived by and sold by for 33 years and it has kept me in very good stead all that time. If someone is trying to sell me a product and they start knocking their competition, they are immediately shown the door ... My reason for non-renewal was simply based on the content change - namely the pages set aside for your ongoing dispute and the 'knocking' of your competitor. I suspect that I am not alone in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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