maurici Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Well then, the disclamer. Long and biased post ahead. Will we manage to keep it civil and realistic? I'm doing that before my membership expires, as this place is by far the more pro Brexit biased community I'm involved with, well above my close social circle, and definitely well above my workplace too, so, If I really want to have any opinion other than "this is all f***** up" It will be easier to find it here rather than the other places I'm involved with. I did reply to a random topic a few months ago saying that "Brexit wasn't that bad" based on my individual experience but I could not see the benefits to a nationwide level... well, that was because I had not tried to travel for long time to my birthplace. Now I do have a very, very different view about it. Let's start with facts (or lies that are actually happening if you are on denial). -Taking your race car to Europe towing, will cost you between 175 and 1000 quid in ATA carnets for temporary export... depending on the car's value. If like me, you travel often and you bring cars back and forth from the uk to Spain (Europe) you are screwed. I found this the hard way when I was arrested in Bilbao port for trying to "smuggle" a race car (like it was shoved up my ass...) and had not been because my uncle is a really hard rank in the Basque autonomical police, I would probably lost my Race car and costed me **** loads of money, plus a court case. This will be like this FOREVER. So... trackdays to Spa and Nurburg with unregistered cars, are OVER(well, not over but twice as expensive). Only registered roadgoing cars. Also selling cars overseas is less attractive, as buyers have to go to an additional 20% expense above the car price. -Your pet can't travel to Europe with the European passport anymore. now will cost you around 200 quid for the health certificate every 6 months. This will be like this forever. -Bringing product from my home town (olive oil, tomatoes, Spanish ham...) is considered smuggling, so... don't do that if you go to Spain. Aside of this, unless is properly packaged you can't bring it even if you declare it. This will also stay forever. Also found it the hard way... and we were "let go" as it wasn't that much of a quantity. They are going to go more strict from now on. -Roaming- Now every individual, or professional going to Europe, will have to pay at least 2 quid per day to get the same phone service previously given for free. 3 weeks in Spain will be 50 quid out of your pocket above what you are actually paying. -Sterling pound crash. From 1.45 euros per pound crashed to under 1.10 and never quite recovered. Going to magaluf to get drunk is around 20% more expensive. Going elsewhere to do something else is also 20% more expensive. -Lack of manpower for many things. Hospitality had to raise the minimum wage even for untrained waiters. going out for dinner is more expensive now. Minimum wage in uk was already mental compared to most of Europe. Really an unqualified person has to earn that much? even with this, the struggle to find uk nationals to work is massive. My partner has absolute nightmares trying to get staff and over 10k of the 35k rooms her company manages are shut due lack of staff. Been like this for 6 months, since the reopening in April, while the available rooms are consistenly sold out. Not sure with the current 3% of unemployment this situation will ever be reverted or if hospitality in Uk is damaged, quite badly for a long time. -Nhs has lost many of the European workers (well, most of it) as the experience acquired in uk is no longer relevant in Europe. A health worker is as good as their merits. (10k lost only on people that went back to Spain, I don't manage German, French and eastern European workers but surely some of them left too) the few ones that I know came back are earning about 40% over their old contracts. A massive screw up if you ask me, as historically UK has been the destination of the health workers around Europe, and you could NEVER have enough of them... I'm amazed that the Health qualifications and merits/experience wasn't dealt separately to protect this workers given how important they are. -All the self employed truck drivers and small overseas transport companies, won't bother to work in uk is too difficult to set up the finances and taxes out of Europe. Also the possibility of a 2 day wait in port due customs being overloaded, puts off the few that were willing to work. When there is peaks on demand, there is lack of product as there is no way to bring the product to the distribution centers. (despite offering up to 65quid per working hour as a driver only). Also for British truckers, go over the borders is a massive pain. All of the above, in a country that didn't need that as unemployment pre/brexit was consistently under 5% and one of the best figures around Europe. -Added difficulty to work overseas. Going to test to Germany, Italy, or Spain is now an ABSOLUTE nightmare, and some projects have been delayed because cars and equipment was held in customs. Nothing wrong with the paperwork, only slow process. Added difficulty that will stay forever. -Several uk professionals, mostly investigators and people in the public sector have lost their ability to work elsewhere than uk unless they renew and homologate their qualifications in Europe. Also something that will stay forever. And this is just stuff that I have experienced first hand, many more stuff to find around if you look or want to beleave internet. If you want DATA about the stuff I'm saying, do your homework, find how many NHS contracts have been renewed for European and at what cost, or go and find the figures of how many Spanish health workers have been repatriated (and was great timing for covid), find yourself the nationwide news about Hospitality workers shortage, and truck drivers (now earing over 60 quid per hour... all to impact in the product price that will be paid by the buyers), find yourself the regulations on importing fresh food, self produced goods, race cars, and pet traveling. Go and find the historical values of the sterling pound I'm not going to link them here. Is all available information. Now: here comes the genuine question, I won't even ask for data. How your daily life has improved since Brexit? was it worth it? will you even be alive when you see any potential benefit about it? How long do you think will take to revert the situation from a pity to a massive improvement worth all the pain? I can see the average Joe ranting "Britain is great again" while heading to the Wetherspoons to have their 20 quid worth of pints, but for the educated, and thinking capable pro brexiters around, where do yo see the improvements? where do you see the advantages? If I remember well, one of the big selling points for the Brexit campaign was that every uk home was paying about 1000 pounds to Europe every year that was never coming back... I think if we add up all the above for an average person, we are well above this 1000 pounds... Yes, this is a biased post, This last few months trying to go to Spain for a long time and trying to organise work overseas have been an absolute nightmare, however, I will be happy to see the benefits and be educated. Genuine, please, prove me wrong and make me see that nobody else is suffering this consequences. Please, avoid trying to make a post saying all I'm stating is a lie, not accurate, wrong.. whatever. Try to focus on educate me (us on the actual benefits) put a list together and enlighten me. I'm going trough all the trouble of writing this as I have a genuine interest on understanding what I'm missing. It obviously can´t be all bad as all the above was predictable and I would expect the people in charge would have protected it... or if they couldn´t do it, it was a genuine massive colective benefit that has not been yet revealed? Ps. Brexit was not about me, I know, I just happen to be an individual that suffers all the above. My British neighbour will suffer the same when trying to go with the caravan to Spain or France and taking the dog, and buying some ham for example... so yes, is a wide situation, not only me. Ps2. I'm holding my umbrella very hard, and is leaking everywhere, no need to tell me to get f***** either, I'm already getting heavily f*****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Colonial Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 51 minutes ago, maurici said: I'm doing that before my membership expires, as this place is by far the more pro Brexit biased community I'm involved with, well above my close social circle, and definitely well above my workplace too, so, If I really want to have any opinion other than "this is all f***** up" It will be easier to find it here rather than the other places I'm involved with. If you mean by that there are a handful of pro-Brexit members who are much more boisterous than all the other members (pro or anti), I’d agree. I’d find it hard to believe the membership as a whole isn’t much closer to 50/50 split, though. I’ve stopped expressing my anti-Brexit views in here for reasons best kept to myself. Anyway…. Best of luck! And… 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAFKARM Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 But we’ve got our blue passports back Maurici, that’s the important thing! 😄 Makes me laugh when people voted to end free movement from Europe, then act surprised when movement into Europe is no longer free! There was a farmer on Woman’s hour this morning complaining about the pig slaughtering situation she voted for brexit but this wasn’t what she voted for… say what you like about “project fear” - it was certainly delivered on time and in budget!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAFKARM Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 21 minutes ago, Captain Colonial said: If you mean by that there are a handful of pro-Brexit members who are much more boisterous than all the other members (pro or anti), I’d agree. I’d find it hard to believe the membership as a whole isn’t much closer to 50/50 split, though. I’ve stopped expressing my anti-Brexit views in here for reasons best kept to myself. Anyway…. Best of luck! And… I asked for the club demographic once but never got it…. I think it would be very interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, maurici said: How your daily life has improved since Brexit? was it worth it? will you even be alive when you see any potential benefit about it? How long do you think will take to revert the situation from a pity to a massive improvement worth all the pain? It hasn't. Its made a complete balls of the industry I work In and the fallout won't be seen for a while due covid. No it wasn't. No I won't. It will never be worth it. Not pessemistic. Just realistic from first hand experiences. And no doubt will have to go through it all again when Sturgeon starts banging her drum rounding up the nutter independents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arm Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 I didn't vote for brexit. Strangely my thought was it was going to be impossible to easily and cleanly disentangle ourselves from it. Then we would have the never ending problems and comments . Rants and concerns. I didn't see any credible alternatives I could believe in and i dont hear them now. Although I didn't want us to leave we have and I doubt we are going back. Has it changed my life. No not as id notice. If someone doesn't like it ask whats the alternative. The going forward alternative. Who should we entrust this too ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Maurici, I voted against Brexit, but the attitude of some of the politicians from mainland Europe since then has me thinking that maybe I was wrong, and that we will be better out of it. The way the French politicians in particular have gone on about the negotiations would suggest that this Country has committed some terrible crime, but you know what? All we as a Country did was to excercise our right to leave in accordance with the Treaties. If they had left things as a common market (and don't forget that is what we joined) then none of this would have happened. Instead, the powers in Brussels have been determined to try and creat some sort of federation of states. And don't get me started on the bureaucratic nonsense and waste of Strasbourgh and Brussels. How many Countries in the EU contribute what they are supposed to (per capita) towards the defence of Europe? How many of them give as much (per capita) in overseas aid to the third world as we do? When wll the commission finally get their accounts audited, after all these years? The fact is that they (particularly the commission are on an uncontrolled gravy train. And much of the problems you complain about particularly relating to the cost of taking your car into Spain are down to the Spanish government, not this Countries government. Oh, and remind me, what is the unemployment rate in Spain? and why is that the fault of this Country? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maurici Posted October 18, 2021 Author Share Posted October 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, stephenh said: relating to the cost of taking your car into Spain are down to the Spanish government, not this Countries government. Nope. Is europe. Is the result of leaving europe. Going to france, germany, belgium or italy is exactly the same. I found out since that MSA has a tutorial on how to go to europe with your car involving expensive carnets and bounds. Not a problem for race teams, a pain for individuals. Expensive mountainbikes, kayaks, caravans, motorbikes and expensive sport equipment will suffer the same treatment over the time. So far, bikes, cars and big stuff is controlled. 11 minutes ago, stephenh said: Oh, and remind me, what is the unemployment rate in Spain? and why is that the fault of this Country? Very high. Cant remember. Never suggested uk government had anything to do with spanish unemployment... or have i? Again... you may or may not be right on what you say... but of course europe didnt make it easy. Or what did you expect? It was clear since the beggining it would be an "screw you if you leave without a deal with yout trousers on your knees". Who is missing more who? France has **** loads of entry points. Uk had only one straight border... and was with france. And british goverment thought they were playing the higher hand? Also a terror lesson for the rest of europe. Look what happens if you leave. No more tomatos, no more fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maurici Posted October 18, 2021 Author Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Captain Colonial said: I’d find it hard to believe the membership as a whole isn’t much closer to 50/50 split, though. Then as I said the biggest brexiter comunity I'm involved with. At work everybody was aware of what would happen and virtually nobody voted in, and my social circle is (generally) around my age and not happy with brexit either... so my chances to get a positive response are higher here than elsewere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pco Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/european-parliament-seek-introduce-speed-limiter-safety-motorcycles Are some positives for the bikers on here 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoob Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 wait till you try and order any parts from the uk for your car/bike once you're in the EU. The extra expense and bureaucracy involved makes it very unattractive. Bad luck for the UK manufacturers and any clients in the EU who know are now forced to go and try and find quality motorsport parts from where? Portugal? don't make me laugh, even the local teams and enthusiasts down here in southern Europe used to order from the UK and are now screwed. Bummer all round. And that's just the effects on our Sports and livelihoods. What about the very real tearing apart of families and loved ones who find themselves stuck on the wrong side of 90 days per 180 I have yet to hear even one single concrete positive benefit as a result of Brexit. There's the usual abstract swill about 'regaining sovereignty' or 'controlling our own borders'. well how's that working out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 I was looking at ordering some parts from Germany this week and companies that I've used previously will no longer ship to the UK. So it's a pain both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 29 minutes ago, scoob said: wait till you try and order any parts from the uk for your car/bike once you're in the EU. The extra expense and bureaucracy involved makes it very unattractive. Bad luck for the UK manufacturers and any clients in the EU who know are now forced to go and try and find quality motorsport parts from where? Portugal? don't make me laugh, even the local teams and enthusiasts down here in southern Europe used to order from the UK and are now screwed. Bummer all round. And that's just the effects on our Sports and livelihoods. What about the very real tearing apart of families and loved ones who find themselves stuck on the wrong side of 90 days per 180 I have yet to hear even one single concrete positive benefit as a result of Brexit. There's the usual abstract swill about 'regaining sovereignty' or 'controlling our own borders'. well how's that working out? Don't want to say anything about Brexit as I'm not British but the above is 100% true, as I'm experiencing it in person. Anything that comes from the UK is surcharged around 30% of its value (VAT + duties) by the customs when it reaches Italy. Doesn't matter if new or used. Therefore I'm trying to buy stuff that can't be ordered elsewhere in Europe. Pre-Brexit, the UK was my favourite market where to buy car parts when I needed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arm Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 The UK truckies i worked with think its great. They are now getting a decent wage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoob Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 too bad there's not enough of them and now the army has to step in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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