Playfully rolling a Brexit grenade into the room...

[Blatman]

1 minute ago, maurici said:

I guess my next post where I poin you to some facts I happen to live don´t really count

 

I won´t answer the rest, as comes on about the same.

 

 

 

 

So you don't have any, it's all just personal opinion garnered from you own echo chamber. I have no issue with that. I would have liked to have a read of the same things youo did so I can learn about what is being claimed.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

12 minutes ago, Blatman said:

I'd be interested to see some evidence that supports this opinion that everything is now worse. Some things are a bit worse, no doubt about it

 

That was the basis of my question earlier. And even you haven't come up with anything that's better? Plenty of worse. So what's the point? Just to say we could? 

 

2 minutes ago, Blatman said:

own echo chamber

 

I think you like the sound of your own far better. 

[maurici]

8 minutes ago, corsechris said:

Apologies - I read

 

"While it has not been as terrible as I was expecting for myself, and I dont give a flying fxxx if you want to sink your country as long as my job is left alone... i will not stay here forever..."

 

and thought that sounded like a complaint.

 

That sounds exactly as it sounds. I don´t really care about the whole coz I won´t stay here forever, and then I stated some things I beleave are facts, some say I´m making them up. 

I guess It was easier to attack me for doubting that this was the right thing for you to do, bring up my personal situation without having an absolute clue of how it worked out, and tell me to **** myself or leave in your last sentence. All very adult.

[corsechris]

I don't recall saying '**** you' to anyone nor at any point have I said I'm alright!

 

I suggested that tilting at windmills was pointless and unproductive.

 

@maurici has said more than once he doesn't care about what happens to the UK and always planned on leaving, so suggesting he do just that as a possible solution doesn't unreasonable. The metaphorical umbrella was to suggest just make the best of the circumstances, not a '**** you'.

[maurici]

11 minutes ago, Blatman said:

 

So you don't have any, it's all just personal opinion garnered from you own echo chamber. I have no issue with that. I would have liked to have a read of the same things youo did so I can learn about what is being claimed.

 

So, when I tell you that a major hospitality retailer is only capable to sell half of its capacity due lack of workforce as 50% used to be foreigners, you don´t consider it a fact, rather a lie I´ve made up?

 

When I tell you I used to have a social group of over 40 spanish people only in crewe prior brexit and they all left leaving only 4 of us here... and during covid, most of the healthcare workers that lef (for a reason, Europe doen´t counts the experience gathered in UK anymore) came back earning significantly more than before, Is also made up, isn´t it?

You don´t need an study to see you´ve lost most of the european NHS worker that were not familiary tied to UK. Spain, france and germany, doesn´t recognise the experience of working in the NHS anymore. And experience and "merits" gathered are ALL in a healthcare worker career.

 

Anyway. I´m mading all this up. Who cares.

 

[Andy - a15cro]

@Captain Colonial……….Playfully rolling a Brexit grenade into the room...🤦🏼‍♂️ You just wanted something not car related to read, in guessing? 😁

[Blatman]

9 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

That was the basis of my question earlier. And even you haven't come up with anything that's better? Plenty of worse. So what's the point? Just to say we could? 

 

Haven't really looked yet. I am challenging Maurici's opinions 'cos I'd like to learn more. 

I tend to think that, as has been said previously, it's too early to actually make an informed opinion yet. It may be that I end up being just like Maurici and being one of those who is negatively affected. I just don't know yet.

[AdamR]

In answer to Steve's question... I haven't seen or heard of any positives yet for the average UK citizen. Obviously a select few stand to gain, or are already gaining, but they would have figured this out in advance and of course rallied for the change.

 

I also think those who had / have more links with Europe are discovering the realities more quickly.

[Blatman]

11 minutes ago, maurici said:

So, when I tell you that a major hospitality retailer is only capable to sell half of its capacity due lack of workforce as 50% used to be foreigners, you don´t consider it a fact, rather a lie I´ve made up?

I don't believe one retailer is indiciative of a whole industry on a single point of contention, no. That's why I asked where the opinon cme from. If there was a consensus among a broader range of hospitality providers which can be read through and analysed, I'd like to read it.

 

11 minutes ago, maurici said:

When I tell you I used to have a social group of over 40 spanish people only in crewe prior brexit and they all left leaving only 4 of us here... and during covid, most of the healthcare workers that lef (for a reason, Europe doen´t counts the experience gathered in UK anymore) came back earning significantly more than before, Is also made up, isn´t it?

Not saying you made it up. Again I'm saying that 40 peopel in Crewe is too small a sample and cannot ppssibly have insight in to the whole of the NHS.

 

11 minutes ago, maurici said:

You don´t need an study to see you´ve lost most of the european NHS worker that were not familiary tied to UK. Spain, france and germany, doesn´t recognise the experience of working in the NHS anymore.

Actually, unbiased studies are the only way to know what is happening.

[corsechris]

Since I appear to be properly in mire now, I may as well carry on.

 

It is impossible to separate the current global pandemic from anything happening in other areas. It has royally stuffed up any plans that may have been in place and aggravated everything.

 

Much like the whole in/out thing, we can never know how things might have gone had the world not had to deal with Covid.

[maurici]

2 minutes ago, Blatman said:

I'd like to read it.

google nationwide hospitality shortage... and choose your source, if 8500 rooms in uk are not a sufficient spectre.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

16 minutes ago, Blatman said:

 

Haven't really looked yet. I am challenging Maurici's opinions 'cos I'd like to learn more. 

I tend to think that, as has been said previously, it's too early to actually make an informed opinion yet. It may be that I end up being just like Maurici and being one of those who is negatively affected. I just don't know yet.

 

Well maybe you should open your horizons a little and try to understand the viewpoints of people who have been adversely affected rather than basically shouting them down and saying they're wrong from behind your keyboard. 

 

My professional qualifications (that took me longer to obtain than a doctor would) basically were hugely restricted overnight, couple that with the removal of ability to work in Europe have restricted my scope of employment massively. All at a time where my industry is on its knees and work is scarce. This was down to the petulance of the UK and not the EU. As other none EU states remain members but the UK chose not to on principle. 

 

But like maurici, I'm probably talking **** and am wrong as there's no Independant study to back up my view. Just real life experience unfortunately. 

 

Maybe I should just **** off aswell and find my umbrella. 

[maurici]

22 minutes ago, Blatman said:

Not saying you made it up. Again I'm saying that 40 peopel in Crewe is too small a sample and cannot ppssibly have insight in to the whole of the NHS.

Precisely... If me, from my position I'm able to generate an spectre that supports the views, is that there is some reality behind. If the sense of the foreighner comunity is "we have to leave, if not we will return to spain without any career merits" is enough indication that brexit had some sort of impact.

Also may have been just a coincidence that spain had more healthworkers available than ever, and not that they came back from uk... Is actually a recurring topic in spain. Thanks good of the brexit cut date, as the "spanish seguridad social" has recovered a few thousand of workers that came back.

 

Unbiased independent studies are rarely available, so, you can only form your opinion on what you happen to experience first hand... and if you are like me that dismisses 90% of the mainstream media... you will struggle to get actual reliable data. Aside... if you, or your inmediate surroundings are heavily affected due this, would you really care if an study comes to tell you should be better? they do so in some asiand countries and dosen't seems to work for the population... (those studies are not unbiased tho...😆)

 

If you can read spanish, search "Enfermeros NHS", check how spain retired the NHS merits and how now spanish healthcare system is well sorted... Germany and france for what I know, did the same. Again... you don't need independent studies to contrast facts.

[Captain Colonial]

35 minutes ago, Andy - a15cro said:

@Captain Colonial……….Playfully rolling a Brexit grenade into the room...🤦🏼‍♂️ You just wanted something not car related to read, in guessing? 😁

*whistles innocently...* 

 

The word “playfully” was in the title, as in “lighthearted”, “not serious”, “jokingly”, etc.

 

However, it sadly seems to have gotten a bit heated, for which I apologise to the Mod Squad, just in case it has popped up on their radar screens.  I’m going to lock the thread now as the joke has already been forgotten.

 

PS: Had an appointment with my new asthma consultant today, after an unexpected three week delay (I’m fine).  My excellent long-term consultant, Dr Martinez, has left the NHS and moved back to Spain - no prizes for guessing why. ☹️