Steve (sdh2903) Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 I think that whatever date is put on it there will be risks, but even the scientists seem to believe its the time to do it as any later any potential surge will coincide with winter flu season. 1 hour ago, OldStager said: I for one will continue to carry on as I have been for the last 18 months or so. I think you've hit the nail on the head there. You still have a choice to stick to any restrictions or practices if you don't feel comfortable with it. Whilst allowing those who are double jabbed and/or at minimal risk to return to some sort of normality. Surprised you've only had 1 jab though did you get missed? My 18 yo daughter has had her 1st and is only 2 weeks behind me getting my second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 As ever, there is no right answer. Whatever Boris did was going to be "wrong" so he chooses "freedom" and suggests that it is up to our own common sense which is fine. Those with common sense will continue to keep more than spitting distance from others, wear masks and wash our hands when we get in from being outside. As I have said all along, these things are not really any hardship. The only remaining issue irrespective of vaccine status is the posibility that the virus might mutate into a "vaccine escape" variant. Of course there is an equal chance it could change to be less virulent and we all hope this is the case. But our luck ain't that good so I'm betting on a vaccine escape variant before Christmas and at least one more lockdown when it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard (OldStager) Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Yeah, my GP practice seem to have some aversion to me as others at the same practice have already had the second one months ago. Even the lady who jabbed me thought it was odd I had been called so late in the programme. And I had to complain to the GP's in order to get the first one. My neighbour has just caught Covid, despite having had two jabs, which is why I feel so strongly against the Gov's experiment. My sister who suffers from CFS ( M.E.) is of the same opinion as myself, being related ( obviously) she is worried as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard (OldStager) Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Blatman said: As ever, there is no right answer. Whatever Boris did was going to be "wrong" so he chooses "freedom" and suggests that it is up to our own common sense which is fine. Those with common sense will continue to keep more than spitting distance from others, wear masks and wash our hands when we get in from being outside. As I have said all along, these things are not really any hardship. The only remaining issue irrespective of vaccine status is the posibility that the virus might mutate into a "vaccine escape" variant. Of course there is an equal chance it could change to be less virulent and we all hope this is the case. But our luck ain't that good so I'm betting on a vaccine escape variant before Christmas and at least one more lockdown when it happens. Whilst I would like to agree with the comments Blatters, sadly my common sense is not necessarily the same as others. I do note that the vaccine manufactures are working on a tweak to the current vaccine in respect of the 'indian' variant, yet I fear it will mutate quicker than they can react to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 42 minutes ago, OldStager said: yet I fear it will mutate quicker than they can react to. They can only react rather than predict mutations so that's a little unfair. The same is true for 'flu vaccines. They wait until they know which strain seems to be the most prevalent each year and then recommend a vaccine. 46 minutes ago, OldStager said: sadly my common sense is not necessarily the same as others. You think wearing masks, keeping away from close contact and washing hands is not a good idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard (OldStager) Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 That was my point, should it mutate we will not be in a position to react to it before it gets rampant. I do think it is a good idea to wear masks and restricting distance, my point is not everyone thinks as I do, I went to my local convenience store today, even on the 9th of July we have folks without masks and shouting at each other to grab another loaf of bread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 My wife was advised in very strong terms to shield in March 2020 because of her status as "extremely vulnerable" as she is on immunotherapy. Recent articles suggest that anyone with compromised immune systems - for whatever reason be it organ transplant drugs at one extreme, to any treatment that affects the immune system at the other - may have a lower level of protection from being vaccinated than the general population. As this 'compromise' is unclear, and may vary from patient to patient, the only safe course of action is to continue as before, i.e. shield. The removal of restrictions cannot apply to such people, obviously, and yet as this vulnerability is 'invisible' the rest of the population will not act in a precautionary manner towards these less well protected people. It's very difficult for the other household members too as they dare not bring home any infection. Your decision, Oldstager, to continue as you were makes eminent sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 On 10/07/2021 at 00:01, OldStager said: My neighbour has just caught Covid, despite having had two jabs, which is why I feel so strongly against the Gov's experiment. My sister who suffers from CFS ( M.E.) is of the same opinion as myself, being related ( obviously) she is worried as well. Yes, I know of a 42 year old, male, not particularly unfit, who has had 2 jabs, and caught the virus about 2 weeks ago. However, and I think this is important, he isn't very poorly, just like a bad cold or a bit of flu, so he has had to spend a couple of weeks isolating on the sofa, watching Wimbledon! He did have a positive test, and is self employed, so I don't think that the fact of it being Wimbledon fortnight was significant in him having to self-isolate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard (OldStager) Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 I was aware you can still catch it after two jabs, but never actually known anyone catch it, not seen her for a few days, but she said it was just flu like symptoms, which is the benefit of having two jabs, far less likely to develop further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard (OldStager) Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Mass Infection Is Not An Option - A press conference. Lasts an hour, pull up a chair... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 On 10/07/2021 at 00:59, OldStager said: my point is not everyone thinks as I do, We agree on that. My point is that The government have said it's up to us now. So we'll see who has common sense and who doesn't. There are plenty of examples of double-jabbed folks getting covid. The vaccines are 90%ish effective (which is more than double the effectiveness of the yearly flu jab) so it's no surprise. There are two key metrics here. Has being vaccinated stopped them from going being admitted to hospital, and what other health conditions were present that might affect disease progression and recovery? Is government policy an experiment? Of course it is. It's been one big experiment since it started because there hasn't been anything like this in modern history. But by putting the experiment in the hands of the people to behave as they wish based on "common sense" means they have handed the experiment to us. Lost of people bemoan that the government isn't to be trusted. Now we'll see if the people can be trusted. My bet is that enough of them can't be trusted and we'll be going around this particular merry-go-round for a while yet. As ever "freedom" comes with responsibilities as well as rights. People often shout loudly about having rights and tend to ignore their responsibilities... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard (OldStager) Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 An experiment yes... the trouble is this is one we do not need to carry out. I am halfway through my posted vid, there is a lot of anger from the science community over this. Why lift restrictions when we are only at 51% of double jabs so far( according to a contributor on the vid above), sadly as far as I see it the Gov are putting the economy ahead of human lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 14 minutes ago, OldStager said: we do not need to carry out. Easy to say if your livelihood doesn't depend on it. We've done full lockdowns and the virus is still here. The scientists want absolute eradication which would destroy the economy and millions of jobs would go. Causing far more long term issues than covid. The economists want the economy fully open. The government have to try and strike a balance. An unenviable task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 26 minutes ago, OldStager said: An experiment yes... the trouble is this is one we do not need to carry out. I am halfway through my posted vid, there is a lot of anger from the science community over this. Why lift restrictions when we are only at 51% of double jabs so far( according to a contributor on the vid above), sadly as far as I see it the Gov are putting the economy ahead of human lives. No point in saving people if there is no economy for them to "use". Even with 100% of double jabbed people, 10% (based on vaccine efficacy which is still far from proved absolutely) will get sick and a number of them will suffer "long covid" or die. 10% of 65 million is 6.5 million. We're well below that now and we have the choice to behave sensibly or not. Like I say the government have placed the experiment in the hands of the people but too few people will recognise this. As for scientists, I like them. They take us places we have never been before. But there is very little downside to scientists criticising the government, same as there is no downside to the opposition (whatever colour flag it is) saying the NHS is not safe in "their" hands. Like I have said there is no right answer to this conundrum. And scientists are in the business of being wrong most of the time. If we are engaged in a social experiment, then we haven't reached a conclusion yet. Any good scientist should recognise that. None of the scientists can present conclusive proof that the government are wrong because it doesn't exist... yet... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard (OldStager) Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Sadly the whole thing has become political and is no longer driven by science. I find that very sad, Boris once said Data not Dates - what happened to that mantra . I said the other day I feel for those that are financially affected I really do, but I fail to see why risking lives and more cases of long covid benefits anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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