Covid Vaccine Poll

[jim_l]

12 hours ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

Could it not also be said present day myocardial issues linked to covid are a handful in every 100,000?

 

You make a very good point, which deserves further research, a precursory look though makes it seem unlikely.  In the last three weeks we have had 3 million cases and 40,000 people hospitalised. In case number terms it is causing ‘I need to go to A&E’ harm to 1,300 in 100,000.

 

We know that even mild to moderate ‘recover at home’ cases are doing harm, including Myocarditis in a high number of cases. The German study is backed up by another study (University of Washington) 71 days after recovery they find abnormal cardiac images in 78%, and ongoing Myocardial inflammation in 60%, of recovered cases, including those that had not required hospital,

 

You see what we are doing here? We are comparing Myocardial inflammation in over 60% of recovered Covid cases with Myocardial inflammation in 1 in 20,000 vaccinations and suggesting Omicron is so much milder maybe the two are the same now?

 

Overall, Covid has made 660,000 people in the UK sick enough for hospital and 1.2 million are reporting long Covid.  Put that alongside whatever harm you think 130 million vaccine doses have done, in numbers and severity, what do you think the post vaccine hospitalisation numbers are?  Of the ‘handful in 100,000’ (1 in 20,000) vaccine related myocarditis cases, how many went to hospital.

 

With what medicine tells us historically about how viruses cause chronic illness, what we are seeing in studies, and what we are hearing from a million reported long Covid cases in the UK…Sometimes you know what the picture on a jigsaw is before you have finished it.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

1 hour ago, jim_l said:

You see what we are doing here? We are comparing Myocardial inflammation in over 60% of recovered Covid cases with Myocardial inflammation in 1 in 20,000 vaccinations and suggesting Omicron is so much milder maybe the two are the same now?

 

It's not really the point I was trying to make, am just not as good at articulating as yourself Jim 

 

Do you have the information per age category that you are quoting from?

 

The main point I was trying to get across was the risk for Myocardial side effects from the vaccine in the younger ages (especially males) Is significantly higher than those who are older.

 

And I suspect the reverse is true (I'm assuming here so correct me if I'm wrong) that the risk of Myocardial issues related to having  covid is much higher in older people?

 

If that's the case I really do not understand why we are now calling forward fit and healthy teenagers forward for booster doses? 

 

I'll finish up by saying I'm genuinely not anti vax. I just firmly believe that the vaccinations should be targeted to those that are deemed to really need them.

 

 

[jim_l]

As I said you made a very good point, which deserves further research,

 

According to a New Scientist publication from (...an Ohio University) 12 to 17 year olds get Myocarditis from (Old) Covid 6 times as often as from the Pfizer vaccine  

 

We don't know if the incidence of Myocarditis is different with Omicron, we don't know even know whether it is more or less severe post virus or post vaccine, but that age is where most of our cases are now. so what do we do? It is an ethical dilemma.

 

Good spot though that we can't assume the numbers will stay the same.  The next study should be 'Post Omicron Myocarditis in 12 to 17 year olds'

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

am just not as good at articulating as yourself Jim 

 I wouldn't say that, i probably have more time to refine than you.

[corsechris]

Is this any help on topic?

 

 

[Arm]

Damn good read thanks gents. I've been following the gent in Chris's link for a while . 

[jim_l]

On 16/01/2022 at 20:49, jeff oakley said:

Jim, the bit quoted was not mine.

Sorry Jeff, meant to apologise for that . 

[corsechris]

I found it interesting just how ‘exercised’ Dr. John was about aspirating when vaccinating. The data he quoted certainly seemed to support the idea that we really should be aspirating…..but as always, headline figures need careful inspection before jumping to conclusions.

[CosKev]

Another interesting FOI link from ONS.

 

Very interesting for all the people forcing their healthy kids to get vaccinated to see the real risk........

 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsandautopsiesfeb2020todec2021?fbclid=IwAR1QIo9iuhFZ4l5FW1s4S9qzqksYYYR2PN6FPnJP1N7Q3o0RKVo0kQ1P95A

[corsechris]

Saw this data the other day - IF a young person is 100% fit & healthy with no chance of comorbidities, then yes, it certainly closes the gap between risk and reward for getting vaccinated. Bear in mind, this is deaths, not hospitalisations, with the unknown risk of 'long covid' to follow. Balance still in favour of vaccination IMO, but then I've no skin in that game.

 

However, although interesting, I don't think this figure is really much more value than the "deaths within 28 days of a positive test" number either. Shock news - sick people get sicker, basically.

 

 

CDC still reckon 2 doses for youngsters is worth the risk, 12-17 years old 9x more likely to be hospitalised if not vaccinated, 18-49 (big spread there!) 12x higher chance of hospitalisation.

 

That shown here, amongst other things 

 

[Captain Colonial]

Due to having pharmaceutically-induced suppressed immune system (the artist formerly known as Shielding), I had my third booster yesterday (all four have been Pfizer).  My consultant told me that with the boosters, if I got COVID it would probably be no worse than the flu.

 

Than he followed it up with “Of course, the flu kills 30,000 people a year in this country, so you don’t want that either.”  I told him to brush up on his bedside manner. 🙄

 

He’s one of those consultants who’s ridiculously happy in their work.  The first time he examined my arthritis, he was saying things like “Oh, how wonderful!  Classic deformation of the joints!”, acting like he’d discovered the Holy Grail.  A little off-putting, but I owe him my decent quality of life so I can easily overlook that.

 

If reports are to be believed, Meatloaf died of Covid and was a vocal anti-vaxxer.  A sad loss of course, but just another contestant on the game show Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes 🤦‍♂️

[Steve (sdh2903)]

Those figures do not stack up.

 

3 deaths caused by covid in under 19s with no other co morbidity. This is also don't forget across other variants which were widely accepted as more deadly.

 

Vs

 

Deaths involving the COVID-19 vaccination for 12 to 15 and 16 to 17 year olds

You can find the number of deaths attributed to adverse reactions to the COVID-19 vaccination in table 12 of our Monthly Mortality Analysis dataset.

There are currently 9 deaths registered in England and Wales with the aligning ICD codes for this.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsinvolvingthecovid19vaccinationfor12to15and16to17yearolds

 

I'm sorry but unless my child has an underlying issue they'd be going nowhere near a jab, especially not for omicron. 

 

The fact that some countries are jabbing down to age 5 is unbelievable.

[corsechris]

To quote the full piece...

 

"There are currently 9 deaths registered in England and Wales with the aligning ICD codes for this, 5 of these deaths have ICD10 U12.9 as the underlying cause. Due to the small numbers involved, we are unable to provide any further disaggregation of this data, however please note that these are deaths across all age groups since the rollout of the vaccination in December 2020 and there are no deaths registered under the age of 35."

 

So the number is 5, not 9, and we know nothing about those people from this data, as in, would they be in the group that suffered 3 deaths or the larger group not detailed - the one with comorbidities/risk factors?

 

ETA, to be clear, I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should be doing.

 

 

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

Read this and some will say "I told you so!" and others will say "bl**** Hell, I didn't know such stupidity existed!"

...biologically toxic nano-metamaterials associated with 5G urban data gathering capability...

 

[corsechris]

And some (me included) will say ‘sadly, I’m well aware that such stupidity exists’.

 

Having had 3 covid vaccinations now, all I can say is that this is not a very effective lethal injection. You're more likely to suffer harm taking Ibuprofen…..

[Captain Colonial]

The repository of stupid is right here:

 

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/