Covid Vaccine Poll

[Richard (OldStager)]

i will go for a head start everytime

[Steve (sdh2903)]

1 minute ago, jeff oakley said:

Last total figures I saw for unvaccinated is 70000 out of 1.5 million employees, so less than 4.9% overall

 

I dont think it's out of 1.5m though is it as non patient facing staff aren't mandated to have it are they?

[jeff oakley]

7 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

 

I dont think it's out of 1.5m though is it as non patient facing staff aren't mandated to have it are they?

 

I am pretty sure that it is 1.2 million and yes it is "customer facing" however the figure I quoted was for all staff. staff like receptionist fall into that area.

 

Many like my wife, who is an accountant are being asked to do roles which possibly would need customer facing, not sure they have thought that far though to be honest as to how they would manage that. It is so fast moving with every knee jerk at the moment. The media wants a lockdown, the NHS top brass do, so far these demands are being resisted but I still think there will be a short one from January 3rd or 4th

 

 

[jim_l]

We don’t have to skip over the ‘flawed reporting’ it isn't flawed reporting but 'flawed listening', we can discuss it, there are, quite simply, two different figures reported,

 

a) ‘deaths within 28 days of a positive test’, reported daily because the figures from death certificates are not collated for days, or more.

b) The ONS Covid deaths data - directly from death certificates, specifically from section 1 of death certificates where Covid “leads directly to death” So contrary to some opinions, being run over by a bus after a positive test is NOT included.

 

Death certificates are completed by doctors, then sent to registrars, who then send the data to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) The ONS is a body of about 5000 civil servants that simply collect and publish data, they do not report to any minister, they have no particular political allegiance.

So, the data regarding deaths caused by Covid is simply, people that, in the absence of Covid, would still be alive. I hope that explanation is clear to you.

 

Secondly, let us approach the possibility that the figures don’t reflect vaccine effectiveness, e.g. “over time we have gradually built up natural immunity”

 

No, according to ICNARC (Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre) Between 2 January and 24 September 2021, the age-adjusted risk of deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) was 32 times greater in unvaccinated people than in fully vaccinated individuals.  This figure is less pronounced now, because vaccine induced immunity is waning amongst the elderly and vulnerable. It remains the case that 20% of the population are unvaccinated, but 50% of admissions and deaths are amongst the unvaccinated.  

 

If you want to know what is happening, go to the people that know, leave twitter and FB alone. 

 

 

 

 

[Richard (OldStager)]

49 minutes ago, jim_l said:

 

If you want to know what is happening, go to the people that know, leave twitter and FB alone. 

 

 

 

 

at last, some sence prevails.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

7 hours ago, jim_l said:

If you want to know what is happening, go to the people that know, leave twitter and FB alone. 

 

I dont think anyone has quoted any info whatsoever gleaned from fb or twitter? Strange thing to say.

 

7 hours ago, jim_l said:

We don’t have to skip over the ‘flawed reporting’ it isn't flawed reporting but 'flawed listening', we can discuss it, there are, quite simply, two different figures reported,

 

Again I'd politely disagree. It's absolutely flawed reporting as the media do not seem to use the ONS data. They use the more sensationalist instantly available data.

 

You are absolutely correct though the correct accurate data is available. Tons of it. But how many people will actually will take the time to sit and look through it vs believing what is said by politicians, on TV and in the written media? Which is more often than  not skewed to whatever agenda is being pushed. 

[AdamR]

11 hours ago, jim_l said:

 ICNARC (Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre)

 

Some really good info on their site, thank you for the heads up!

 

The stat that jumps out at me (from their papers) is the percentage of deaths and critical illnesses in those who are over 25 BMI - consistently 78-82% throughout: https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/e7be23e7-695f-ec11-9139-00505601089b

 

So if all the UK population had a BMI of 25 or under, we'd only have ~20% as many hospitalisations and deaths as we do now. There is also no "waning" of efficacy, requirement for further jabs, or potential for jab side effects if you simply focus on living a healthy life.

 

Skeptical hat on: I doubt there are bottles of champagne at my local greengrocers Xmas party.

[corsechris]

I spent a time working for the NHS as a Medical Technical officer. I was required to have a series of vaccinations to keep that job. At no point did I consider this an infringement of my rights or a conspiracy to control my mind or whatever other bl**** nonsense the vast majority of anti-vaxers seems to believe - I considered it as a bit of enlightened self interest on the part of the NHS first (don't want to get sued for staff catching or spreading anything), and an element of corporate responsibility towards me second (don't want staff catching anything). I had zero issue with getting it done either as I really didn't want to risk catching what was being vaccinated against.

 

I bet with the same style of FUD campaign I could convince the majority of the current anti-vax proponents to stop driving their cars. Let's face it, the vast majority of car drivers have about as much knowledge of how their conveyance works as most of us do about how medicine works. A few finely crafted sentences of the unknowns, potential problems and a few random test cases is all it takes. Throw in some b*****k* about having your freedom infringed and the righteous indignation takes over, what little critical thinking capacity a person may have had now thoroughly subsumed by rage.

 

No guarantees in life I'm afraid, all you can do is play the odds. I'm liking the odds of getting vaccinated, and I'll always believe cock-up over conspiracy.

 

YMMV

 

[AdamR]

7 minutes ago, corsechris said:

No guarantees in life I'm afraid, all you can do is play the odds.

Well summed up and agreed entirely 👍

[Steve (sdh2903)]

37 minutes ago, AdamR said:

Skeptical hat on: I doubt there are bottles of champagne at my local greengrocers work related gathering 

 

FTFY 

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

As far as I recall my son had to have more than one vaccination before he could even enrol in med school.

[CosKev]

19 hours ago, MR.C said:

Does stop you spreading, doesn't stop you catching,just gives your immune system a head start.

 

Only reduces you spreading it for two weeks after it's kicked in,after two weeks it drops massively to almost the same as someone unvaccinated. 

 

It's all about the passport 🙄

[Geoffrey Carter (Buttercup)]

 I had my booster today. 

 

it was given to me in a local church.

 

This is a sticker I received.

 

Churches are not how I remember them.

 

[Blatman]

Quote

but there is a decent chunk who've read the data and made a choice based on their circumstances.

 

Those circumstances seem to me to be predicated on anything that happens to fit the confirmation bias of the reader. So what are they reading? It looks to me like "their" information does indeed come from Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and/or by following links to conspiratorial websites and blogs which contain little to no science and where there is science, it is ridiculously mis-understood or mis-interpreted.

 

There are a number of "statistics" in the recent batch of posts that claim deaths or hospital admissions or side effects or whatever are "in fact" much worse than we are being told yet there is no scholarly evidence to back up the claim, falling back to "I know someone..." or worse, just bad maths and bad comprehension which is the seed for much of these types of "facts".

OK, for the moment lets assume these "internet facts" are a true representation of the situation and there is a conspiracy of some sort and the Government or big pharma or the illuminati or the Scientology Aliens or the Romulans are covering up the truth. Well if these all powerful forces are covering up the truth, how did "you" (that's a "royal you", it's not aimed at anyone specific) find out about it?

Or... it's not being covered up very well BUT only those who hold a similar view have managed to learn about it. Hmmm... OK maybe, but lets not forget this government can't keep a party with a handful of people in attendance quiet, but they are involved in global conspiracy to cull the population or cause mutations or whatever idiotic claim is the current conspiracy du jour and no-one can find any solid proof of this AT ALL. Next we'll be hearing that Covid 19 vaccines made the earth spherical...

 

Someone mentioned that a person can hold different opinions about the same thing. It's called cognitive disonance. There's a lot of that about, and it seems to manifest itself in a particular group, but I digress...

 

Back to the conspiracy. "They" want to see who can be controlled by releasing a virus and a "vaccine" to look for obedience/compliance in the population. The uncontrolled/non-compliant are culled "naturally" so "they" win. But as the anti-vaxxers, to my eyes at least, seem keen to poke two fingers up at the powers that be, science, nature, medicine, history and whatever other types of pie there are in Trivial Pursuits, then surely they should be getting vaccinated so they can continue the fight and call their bluff. Something to think about 'cos it can't be both fake AND fatal...

 

Lets finish with some FACTS. I had my booster last Saturday. Why? Because I've been taking vaccines all my life, for holidays, for work and when I tip up at A+E with another power tool induced wound and they give me a tetanus booster and on occasion anti-biotics to prevent potential infections. NONE of the vaccines I have been given have been as widely distributed and used as Covid 19 vaccines. Several of them have made me feel like crap for a few hours, a bit like Covid 19 where the first one caused me to go to bed early one night and after a good nights sleep I was as right as rain. The second and booster jabs both passed un-noticed. Conversely, anti-biotics always give me a bad stomach for a few days. Anyone who knows anything about how anti-biotics work will know why this is and it has nothing to do with conspiring to keep me in or near the bog for a few days so the government can test what I've been eating and know when I'm indisposed. But I digress... again...

 

By this set of facts, all those who are hesitant now know first hand of a person who has had all three jabs and didn't die, didn't have a heart attack, didn't develop blood clots, is not being tracked by nanobots and judging by the length and tone of this contribution, has lost none of his abilites to be just as annoying as he always was. Proof positive that his mental state is unaltered since taking the vaccine. Apart from referring to himself in the third person. That's new.

Please hasten to your keyboards armed with this perfectly acceptable sample of "someone I know on the internet...", and spread the good news...

 

 

 

 

[Arm]

So much better put than I could manage.