Ouch, have you seen this Sport 250 on eBay

[Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO]

I know how much I forked out for the kit. And I keep trying to pluck up the courage to go through our PayPal account and add up all those "extra little bits" I bought when building mine. Plus the Toolstation and Screwfix bits as well!

Whenever I mention it, my "Financial controller" just says " do you really want to frighten yourself". She's probably right.

It doesn't stop when you're on the road either, Internet shopping is too easy 

Doesn't answer what a new Sport 250 should cost though. Not really sure how you can value our cars, mines very valuable to me, but in terms of pounds, shillings and pence not really got a clue. Don't think anybody would be prepared to pay the going rate for the man hours (can I still say that?) I put into the build.

Guess the cost would be kit, including options, plus factory build charge. But does that include IVA?

[Thrustyjust]

2 hours ago, stephenh said:

So how much should a new Sport 250 cost? 

Probably more than someone wishes to pay for it. Its a lot of money for a play car. 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

9 minutes ago, Thrustyjust said:

Probably more than someone wishes to pay for it. Its a lot of money for a play car. 

That’s the problem when you spec the most expensive model up with a set of expensive options. Don’t forget, it’s an al” new power train, too.

the problem is when buy8ng it as a new car, you’re expected to buy the options, whereas on a second hand car further down the line, I’m afraid to say while many of those options might make a car more desirable, not many actually add much physical value to the price, and I’m not sure if any optional upgrade really adds the its own value to the base price of the car.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

...and of course, when it comes to spending that sort of money on a fun car, you have an awful lot of options these days, including some toys from the big names.

[Thrustyjust]

2 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said:

That’s the problem when you spec the most expensive model up with a set of expensive options. Don’t forget, it’s an al” new power train, too.

the problem is when buy8ng it as a new car, you’re expected to buy the options, whereas on a second hand car further down the line, I’m afraid to say while many of those options might make a car more desirable, not many actually add much physical value to the price, and I’m not sure if any optional upgrade really adds the its own value to the base price of the car.

It is a new car, but that price point is getting away from the real thing of a component 'kit' car. Kit cars are the ability to drive something you hand built/ wanted to own in nostalgia / unusual car for a cheap cost. Its not 'really' any of those. Someone that has 35k burning a hole in their pocket and is going to buy a Westfield , is a tiny, tiny market. And dare I say , would probably buy a Caterham ! 

[BugMan]

I agree I also have all the receipts  and while still adding to the pile would be scared ****-less to even think about adding things up, especially when you consider workshop candy (tools) as i can sort of kid myself its for the future.

Man hours spent by one of us would be vastly different to a factory built car I suspect, and while they might work an 8 hour day, and then go home, where we steal a few hours in the evening mostly and at weekends (I suspect, and just opinion) I cant imagine what an hourly rate would be.  I did originally keep a record on hours spent, but my hart was not in it and after forgetting a few nights, just gave up.

I also know in my head what I spent on the kit, and in my head thats the figure its worth to me, but as Dave said its the options that change the landscape - vastly.

Again it was the wisdom here (WSCC) that made be stop mistakes like tires from WF that I didn't really want (T1R, r888), and originally was going to buy, and then swap at a later point (I bet the first set of tires will last me years RiR's bought new recently).

I would suggest that what a car has fitted as options, outside of engine/chassis are not as important as the availability and price, as one of my local group bought a car with an areoscreen, and is now fitting bits to make it his (windscreen and electric mirrors) 

[Lyonspride]

12 hours ago, Thrustyjust said:

It is a new car, but that price point is getting away from the real thing of a component 'kit' car. Kit cars are the ability to drive something you hand built/ wanted to own in nostalgia / unusual car for a cheap cost. Its not 'really' any of those. Someone that has 35k burning a hole in their pocket and is going to buy a Westfield , is a tiny, tiny market. And dare I say , would probably buy a Caterham ! 

I think this exactly sums it up.

If someone spends that money on a pre-built car like this, they're not going to buy a Westfield, because everyone will ask them "is it a Caterham?", followed by "oh, never heard of a Westfield, did you build it yourself?".

On the plus side, these prices can only serve to improve the value of other/our vehicles

[stephenh]

The asking price is £4,250 MORE than the basic price of a new factory built Sport 250, and over £8,000 more than the new price of a complete kit for home construction.

As Dave has said, the options don't really add a lot to the VALUE (note value, not price) because the options and extras which one man would find desirable aren't necessarily the ones another person would want. 

Now I really don't like it when people say that a particular Westfield is overpriced, because it does tend to down-value all out cars, but in this particular case, you do have to wonder. Maybe someone with a deep pocket and wanting a car like that should offer them, say, £30k and maybe they could get a bargain? 

[Steve (sdh2903)]

Problem is, where do Westfield go for engines? They want to sell a kit of parts for a new built car. The blacktops are running out (i heard only auto ones left which are being modded before being sold). The f20c is getting rare and aren't available new unless you've got £££££. There only seems to be ford who are interested in selling the crate lumps over here. 

The 2.0 ecoboost is relatively cheap because of the amount they produce and they are trying to push the smaller 4 cylinders in the states. So while the sport 250 ends up expensive the engine itself is pretty good value.

I know that the non turbo 2.0 version of the ecoboost which is called the GDI engine, is used over here by Morgan but I haven't seen any prices mooted.

So where do Westfield find a ruck of crate engines that are suitable and reasonable cost wise?

 

[Steve (sdh2903)]

Just found this. 2.0 N/a  160bhp crate engine plus controls pack including ecu for $3600. Not too bad I suppose but still nearly double the cost of a blacktop. Plus the UK tax on top.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-20TIVCT

[BenD]

Mx5 engine has to be the way to go lol

[BugMan]

Am going to put this up in a post, but here are some engines that I came across at Ginetta on there factory tour on Sunday morning with PistonHeads

 

[Thrustyjust]

I think for the 'development' of kit cars future power plants, we have to look at cars which we currently arent using. From Lotus's idea, that when the K series passed away, they went Toyota. Now 190 bhp from an 1800 japanese engine, isnt what you would call 'ballistic' , yet they used it and still do. Faster ones stuck a supercharger on them , until the V6 's arrived. Now , I think along the lines of a RWD car , to keep costs lower and think  BRZ. Not the engines, as they are flat 4's and wont fit. But the diff and gearbox is a good start! Whether or not a Toyota 1800 , as the Elise uses, or a 1.6 ecoboost , which is a corker or the ST 250 will fit with an adaptor plate, I dont know, although the ST engines using MX5 gearboxes, as the Duratec is based similary.  There is also the 1 ltr ecoboost 3 cylinder, which could easily make 150 bhp plus for mild cars. Something VAG may well go in there too, as seen an RX8 running one , with what I believe is the Maxda box. 

As time goes by , we are seeing smaller capacity engines appearing. Also being standard gives better chances for IVA compliance. So, turbos are now becoming a more common place item in an engine bay to compensate for the lack of capacity. There may even be conversion systems for Honda engines ( Latest Civic Type R engine !!) to RWD , especially in the culture of drifting being worldwide, someone must make products to keep the kit car scene alive.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

The part that always complicates things is the need to buy new. That always used to be the sticking point with Honda, who wouldn’t supply the small, low volume manufacturers and kit people.

As was pointed out earlier, one of the biggest reasons for the choice of the 2.0 Ecoboost was that it could be bought off the shelf, new, and in a virtually ready to go form.

[Thrustyjust]

8 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said:

The part that always complicates things is the need to buy new. That always used to be the sticking point with Honda, who wouldn’t supply the small, low volume manufacturers and kit people.

 

What like Ariel for the Atom ?