So....Diesel Cars and Transport

[KugaWestie]

I was having a quick look last week, as my company vehicle needs changing in December and I was having this debate in my head.

At present I run a BMW 320 Diesel Gran Turismo. Great car, and when its time to change I would very much like the same (no electric/hybrid option on this particular model), but the diesel/satan tax made me wonder.

Looking at the incremental income tax increases for the same diesel model, I might just as well go for a 3 litre straight six petrol and pay roughly the same tax. Fuel cost is not really a relevant consideration to me as I only pay a minimal amount for a few private miles.
But I would probably drop by 15mpg in consumption, buying and using a lot more fuel

So which is better for the environment - 50,000 miles at 47mpg in a diesel, or 50,000 miles at say 32mpg in a petrol?

[corsechris]

Some random thoughts.

EV batteries are looking like they will be lasting well. Much better in fact than the manufacturers first thought. Tesla warrant the entire drivetrain including battery for 8 years so must be fairly confident.

I’m not sure most of the mainstream manufacturers really wanted to get into EV production a few years back, but they are all scrambling to join in now.

Unless you own a Tesla, current(!) charging solutions when out and about are poor at present, but they are improving. If the big brands want to sell EVs then they will need to get it gripped. There’s no shortage of solutions, just the will.

Hard to credit, but the average UK journey is well within the range capability of pretty much every EV currently available.

[Alan France]

On my second hybrid, this time GS300h. After 2 years we’re averaging 46mpg in summer and 43mpg in winter on a mix of retired couple driving so no commuting to work. Not quite the torque of a diesel but ok for a mid size car. Fourth Lexus and as usual nothing goes wrong, wife’s IS did 90,000 over 12 years and the only failure was an interior light bulb.

A lot quieter than a diesel and no gloves at the filling station.

[KugaWestie]

5 minutes ago, Route66 said:

On my second hybrid, this time GS300h. After 2 years we’re averaging 46mpg in summer and 43mpg in winter on a mix of retired couple driving so no commuting to work. Not quite the torque of a diesel but ok for a mid size car. Fourth Lexus and as usual nothing goes wrong, wife’s IS did 90,000 over 12 years and the only failure was an interior light bulb.

A lot quieter than a diesel and no gloves at the filling station.

I had a 64 plate IS300h and put 40k on it in 2 years before changing to the 320D GT, and have to disagree with you on noise.
I found the engine on the IS to be very noisy when pushing on, but not in a good way, quite boomy. I also found the auto transmission frustrating as there are no gears as such, so as soon as you put your foot down the engine roars up to almost maximum revs and then stays at that level all the time you are accelerating.
The other problem with Lexus is they do not offer a decent family size hatchback or estate, only SUV options which don't suit my need/want

[corsechris]

I looked at a few options when buying my first (and last) new car last year. I know buying a new car with your own money is stupid but I wanted to do it once before I die.

The shortlist was GS450h, 330e, C350e or the wildcard V6 XE. Ended up with the C class. Works well for us. Most of our short trips are on battery, longer ones typically give around 50-60mpg. 

[Alan France]

I agree Gary, the 300h is noisy when pushing on, but quiet when not. The RX450h is the same, but agree SUV not to everyone’s taste. Good job we all want something different.

[pistonbroke]

16 hours ago, DamperMan said:

How I see it.

diesel if your doing lots of miles out side cities

petrol sorter distance more town driving.

large cities electric.

 

but if you live in a large city your unlikely to have your own drive.   There are hardly any charge points at the mo so electric in this situation is largely useless.    

Hybrid although sounds ideal only really shines in certain driving conditions, the rest of the time your just carrying a lot of expensive time bomb weights

A huge amount of pollution is caused by shipping which will run on almost anything and is totally Un-regulated. 

truck and buse have been diesel for a very long time for very good reasons.   In fact the bigger the diesel the more efficient it is.   The ‘old mans’ 260 bhp, 9l truck empty weighing 7500 kg did similar to the gallon to my Westfield.

i’m happy to move technology when the new tech is as good as the old and is ecologically as sound as the old.    Not just a thinly vailed sales and tax collection excersise. 

My final gripe stop start technology.  I’d really love to know how long the engine needs to be stopped for it to make ecological sense.   Carrying a larger, less ecological battery, larger alternator and more regular starter motor changed plus increased engine ware had surely a break even point.   Diesels use almost nothing ticking over unlike petrols anyway.   

 

What about people who live outside town & commute  

City dwellers , whats wrong with using public transport .

Empty HGV is hardly economical , a 20 ton 6 axles laden  does a bit more than the westfield 

[corsechris]

Shipping isn’t unregulated by the way. They are late to the party, but new ships have to have exhaust gas cleaning equipment installed and they are restricted as to which fuels they can burn within a certain distance of land/certain areas.  I don’t know much of the detail but a friend who was a chief engineer for a shipping line sent me some details of the systems on the new ships he was accepting and he also mentioned the thing about restrictions on fuels.

 

Some detail here if of interest.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulphur_Emission_Control_Area

[johnev]

I've spent the last 3 years driving an Nissan Leaf commuting 60 miles a day. I can say I rarely use a public charger. I plug in at home and every morning it is 100% charged and ready to go.  On economy rates overnight is costs about £1. Yearly servicing is approx £100 and the road tax is zero. My first used Leaf cost £8000 three years ago and is still worth £6000. These cars save me loads of money - enough to go sprint racing.  My wife has just purchased a Renault Zoe with 160 mile range - she charges it once a week and rarely gets lower than 80+ miles range. 

Yes - on a long trip it's a pain to have to stop and rapid charge. These journeys take 50% longer and it's inconvenient but hay - I can afford to go racing. 

[Blatman]

On 1/10/2018 at 10:16, Route66 said:

On my second hybrid, this time GS300h. After 2 years we’re averaging 46mpg in summer and 43mpg in winter on a mix of retired couple driving so no commuting to work. Not quite the torque of a diesel but ok for a mid size car. Fourth Lexus and as usual nothing goes wrong, wife’s IS did 90,000 over 12 years and the only failure was an interior light bulb.

A lot quieter than a diesel and no gloves at the filling station.

Same as I get from my 55 plate 95,000 (and counting) 2.0TDCI Focus, and I can't hear the engine above the stereo whether it's Eminems latest or GQT  

[Alan France]

11 hours ago, Blatman said:

Same as I get from my 55 plate 95,000 (and counting) 2.0TDCI Focus, and I can't hear the engine above the stereo whether it's Eminems latest or GQT  

Good stereo. 

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Public transport is always pushed by the government. However, they listened to a bloke called Beeching in the 1960';s and closed nearly all the local lines down. now they've gone full circle and want people to use them again

[DamperMan]

On 10/01/2018 at 09:35, Gary (KugaWestie) - North Oxfordshire AO said:

I was having a quick look last week, as my company vehicle needs changing in December and I was having this debate in my head.

At present I run a BMW 320 Diesel Gran Turismo. Great car, and when its time to change I would very much like the same (no electric/hybrid option on this particular model), but the diesel/satan tax made me wonder.

Looking at the incremental income tax increases for the same diesel model, I might just as well go for a 3 litre straight six petrol and pay roughly the same tax. Fuel cost is not really a relevant consideration to me as I only pay a minimal amount for a few private miles.
But I would probably drop by 15mpg in consumption, buying and using a lot more fuel

So which is better for the environment - 50,000 miles at 47mpg in a diesel, or 50,000 miles at say 32mpg in a petrol?

How about a 330e...  does about 15 miles on electric !   But the company car tax rules make environmental on the wallet. 

[KugaWestie]

4 hours ago, DamperMan said:

How about a 330e...  does about 15 miles on electric !   But the company car tax rules make environmental on the wallet. 

The 330e would fit the bill (as long as the towing capacity is ok) if they did it in the Gran Turismo, but they only offer it in the saloon unfortunately 

[dombanks]

An electric would suit me perfectly untill that time i needed to go distance. I would guess that for an increasing number of people it would do. Deffo 90‰ live within range. On the emissions front its got to be better than the emissions my 3l z does on the 1mile trip to the shops. 

Public transport is an option but unless you use enough its expensive. A day ticket here is 4.20 for a 3 mile trip. The old route I was on was also atrocious... Buses every 15 mins in the day but these stopped at 5 and by 7 were 1an hour.