Banning combustion engines in the UK, is it worth it..?

[John K]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

It is a good thing to try to control polution.

But if America, Russia, China and India are just going to carry on like they are and ignore this,  what's the point..?

A small country like the UK enacting a ban like this would be virtually unnoticeable globally.

 

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

It's a pose at this stage. Nobody expects anything so far ahead to actually happen as proposed. 'Fire up the Quattro!'

[DamperMan]

And you still need to get the energy from something.   I get the concept for localised pollution.   I 'm not convinced localised burning of fuel on demand is worse globally than the environmental impact of producing electricity and distributing it by most other forms..

 

[Terry Everall]

Will the legislation ban Lorries and Diesel Trains who cover big mileages as well as Buses that seem to belch out masses of black fumes

 

[Thrustyjust]

So, the ban on 'cars' with ICE is something we were expecting, but the timescale has no back up on if manufacturers will make it in time.23 years in the modern world seems an age away, but it will creep up on us. My thought is that hydrogen cars dont seem to have had a look in for vehicles. Also the environmental damage that manufacture and destruction/ disposal/ recycling of electric cars gets bigger, the more vehicles there are. Also the cost of them prohibits many people now from buying them. 

On another note, does that mean we will still use diesel lorries , boats and planes using av fuel after this date ?

[John K]

49 minutes ago, DamperMan said:

And you still need to get the energy from something.

I've been screaming this since I was a kid but old enough to understand "science" because if you follow this to its ultimate conclusion...

Well meaning hippies "replace all combustion engines with electric motors"

Engineers (previous employed by the car industry) "OK, we'll build some nuclear power stations (Fusion if we could) to charge the batteries"

Well meaning hippies "No..! Nuclear is evil, it must be solar"

Engineers "OK, we will cover the countryside with PV panels"

Well meaning hippies "My God, No..! Think of the Badgers..!"

Engineers "Ok, tidal power?"

Well meaning hippies "Spawning Salmon..."

Engineers "Wind farms..?"

Well meaning hippies "Buzzards..."

Engineers quietly work away on a gadget and ZZZAPPPPPPP - goes the Common Sense Ray (c)...

[John K]

And also we need to get how bad the UK is in perspective here.

The BBC had a WMH (Well Meaning Hippie) on TV this morning who said something like "We have to control the dreadful pollution on the UK roads"

Several times I've walked out the hotel in the middle of Beijing and struggled to see across the road (OK it was a wide road but...) - please folks lets keep this in proportion...

[John Dolan - Wirral & North Wales AO]

If I'm lucky enough I won't be among the 40,000 a year killed by air pollution. By 2040 I will be 93, hope I can still get into my V8 to find a petrol station, drive along roads with no speed bumps and try not to break the blanket 20mph speed limit.

 

[jeff oakley]

The world is going mad. Pollution by land based transport is small fry but one that can easily be taxed. 

Hydrogen is a better long term bet but pictures of the Hindenberg exploding is enough to put many off.

A recent report said that the UK will need 7 new nuclear power stations to charge 50% of electric cars, where will these be built?

Heavy ships aeroplanes are huge polluters and there are no plans to do anything about them.

time will tell

[John K]

18 minutes ago, jeff oakley said:

UK will need 7 new nuclear power stations to charge 50% of electric cars, where will these be built?

IMHO the biggest non commercial costs barrier to building nuclear stations in the UK in the "not near me" attitude.

And this is quite reasonable. I'm not sure how I would react to one at the bottom of the garden.

Except...

What if the deal was, "If you can see any of the physical powerstation from a top floor window of your house, your house gets as much free electricity as you can consume, for as long as you can see it" (so no planting leylandii hedges)

Free lecy for ever..? Would that change mindsets?

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

47 minutes ago, John K said:

And also we need to get how bad the UK is in perspective here.

The BBC had a WMH (Well Meaning Hippie) on TV this morning who said something like "We have to control the dreadful pollution on the UK roads"

Several times I've walked out the hotel in the middle of Beijing and struggled to see across the road (OK it was a wide road but...) - please folks lets keep this in proportion...

I was at school during the bad fogs in the London area in the 1950s and 60s. I lived in a typical inter-war outer London estate of three bedroomed semis within a quarter of a mile of Western Avenue (A40) and when it was really foggy it was impossible to see the houses opposite or even the (gas) street light. If you blew your nose the mucus would be black. The place I worked for the first eight years of my working life had indoor fog on bad days. Admittedly it was a large factory floor but not a dirty process plant (Hoover in Perivale). As far as I know I am still alive and able to breathe reasonably freely. Pollution schmollution! 

[DamperMan]

Nuclear  huge amounts of energy goes into building them.  The production of concrete alone is a huge energy investment.   

It's a bit  like 75% of all the energy a car will ever use is in its production.   The figure is surely worse for eco cars with shorter life spans and more tech in them.   I know the technology will improve but!

yes Westfield's there for must be green.  If we used them not just for leisure. 

Much of the green stuff like solar,  wind and especially wind off shore the break even if energy used in production / energy produced is many years but the life of the projects are not infinite.    

I don't see a feasable solution. 

[corsechris]

[Peter (Monty)]

Priorities...

http://www.industrytap.com/worlds-15-biggest-ships-create-more-pollution-than-all-the-cars-in-the-world/8182

[Northwarks]

I can see the push on Diesel and IMHO the VW and other scandals over emissions haven't helped the market. But you can see where this is going with electric cars and self driving - So much that India has actually gone down the route of banning self-drive cars. I recommend you watch the BBC Horizon episode about self driving cars that aired recently - its no doubt going to happen in my lifetime but gives you a view of the gap between level 3-5. 

In terms of green  - I think people forget that charging a car isn't as green as they think, there's still an impact somewhere even with wind/solar plus I don't get the point of hybrid, you either commit to EV or not.

My office out in California has rows of charging points, they are full everyday - When you quiz the team on how they get on with EVs they are very quick to say they have V8s for the weekends