Brexit

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

I have often thought that pharmaceutical research should be Government funded and managed so that the final products won't be cripplingly expensive for the NHS. Not all drugs; not slimming aids, nor other non-lifesaving drugs, but essentials such as antibiotics.

[corsechris]

We are net contributors to the EU.  All the money coming back from the EU was ours to start with, but is returned with strict rules as to where it can be spent.  I'd rather like us to be able to decide where we spend our tax money, be it to scientific research or filling potholes.

 

 

It's this key point really - we will have quite a chunk of cash to spend however we see fit, and I for one will always support a party with the brain to back science, technology and industry. We simply can't run the country on corner shops and beauty parlours, despite what the late M Thatcher may have claimed.

[DamperMan]

But surely if a decent business model for a project can be put forward.. Or there is a use for the project findings or potential findings them we'd be happy to pay a reasonable amount as tax payers. Or could be funded buy business.

But.. Paying for crazy money for projects of no or little use maybe tax payers should' be expected to pay.

When I listen to the news and hear the latest xxx is going to cost 1 billion, I guess there's probably less than half the population of 65 million paying tax that's £30 per person. If you ask most of us for £30 we all want something of value back.

If you was to ask me for £30 towards gritting the roads in winter I'd say great as this has a positive effect on the economy.. But 30 to find out if dog owners or cat owners have more ear wax I'd say I'm buying Chinese for the family.

Now if the model is based on the whole population of Europe then maybe paying 50p to know the ear wax question may be worth it. but Europe wide there is a lot of projects!

[maurici]

I've asked to everyone... but no one have any clear view about it...

One of the very main topics is about clossing, or at least highly control the borders...

What will hapen to all the honest not british people that is actually working and supporting the country in A LOT of different fields?

Only in Crewe hospital, 130 nusers and about 4 doctora are from Spain. Of course, Indians, Portuguese and polish also. More than 50% of the hospital staff outcomers. All they hired straightforward from the NHS because the internal resources were not enough.

The same happens in the technology field. Me, and A LOT of colleagues, are being hunted from our jobs in our countries, offering us crazy deals abecause again, the inner resources are not enough /suitable.

I'm not speaking about people working as a waitress or shop staff. I'm speaking about highly qualified people, covering key roles that the UK people seems not to be interested.

What I'm saying is a fact. So here is my question.

I don't really mind about what will happen, what any Uk citizen will decide and is up to you to decide the future of your country.

But what will happen with us? My only interest about that is this.

I've been trying to ask/find some information about this... and nothing states what will happen and which will be our conditions.

I'm really scared.

We will need visa? Sponsorship? How difficult will be take mymoney back to my country when I decide to retire?

Does anybody know any answer about this or where to find any proposal or draf about how want they manage it?

Of cours, I'm not allowed to vote, so my question is only to try to be informed, as I've been "extracted" from a very comfortable situation from my home country, attracted with an amazing position and good money deals and a lot of ease to relocate and move... but I'm starting to think that I've done it wrong.

The only information I've find about, is that people from stronger countries (France, germany... Austria...) will have very good deals to stay, but people from weaker countries (spain Greece Portugal and east of Europe basically) will be in a very difficult position to be able to stay.

Unfortunately I'm in this second group... and it scares me a lot.

[Deanspoors]

Maurici,

 

As I see it, getting the control of our borders back is to allow us to search for those with the skills that we need from ANYWHERE in the world. Currently we have an open door policy where any EU passport holder can come to the UK and work/live regardless of their skills, education, etc. As you said the UK will always need to outsource skilled people, nurses, doctors, engineers, etc. the list is endless, but if we leave the EU then at least we have the option to allow the best people for us into the country without discriminating against countries, outside of the EU e.g. India/Australia/Russia, etc. If we do end up with an out vote it will be by no means an overnight change, I would hope the foreign people working in this country now would be treat reasonably as is the British spirit. But all in all I don't think anyone can give any hard and fast answers right now as nobody knows truly what will happen whether we end up staying in or leaving.  

 

The worry for me is that there are UNSKILLED persons coming to the UK because of the obvious more attractive lifestyle that the UK can offer and these people are (understandably, no doubt) taking the jobs that could be given to the British people.

[Mooch]

Unfortunately I'm in this second group... and it scares me a lot.

 

I don't think you need be scared of an out vote, Maurici. It just isn't the way of this country to kick out people we have already invited in.  We can't even kick out the ones that would like to do us harm in many cases!

 

I think you will find that if you are already here, there will be no problem staying.  What we will see is a gradual increase in control over who comes in after the vote to leave and that will take a couple of years to establish.  We completely rely on overseas talent from Europe and the rest of the world, but the key issue is control - unrestricted access from newer and accession EU states attracted by massively disproportionate living wages is unsustainable.  If someone has something to offer and we have the need, you'll be allowed in for sure.

[Dommo]

I'm still on the fence - trying to make a sensible decision rather than an emotional one. I think it would be so much easier with vote leave and remain camps. Latest I read is vote leave would scrap vat on energy bills like some kind of bribe.

I don't think I'm ready to vote to leave yet as I'm not sure the short term pain has much in the way of real benefit. But at the same time I'm not sure what opportunity we'll be missing out on by staying.

[maurici]

This is the problem, Nobody Knows exactly what will happen, and this is the scary thing for me. Everybody is guessing, but if the vote is leave, and being nothing written, my decision will probably in a mid term leave.

 

All my life will be pending to fullfill some kind of requisites that for some stupid reason I can fail.

Some friends that was working for INTEL-Inside in Usa, few years ago, suffered this issue when the "sponsorship" criteria was suddently restricted, and it was a that big nighmare that some of them were forced to leave.

 

Knowing that efectively, nothing is written down, is scary. And as I can see, there is not a plan about anything.

 

Let's see what happens, but the inmediate reaction of all this people that actually was more or less well paid in the origin country and are here to have a life experience and because was suposed to be safer that in spain (for example) will be leave.

 

I can't avoid to think that is totally irresponsible vote anything without having a written plan about EVERYTHING that will happen next. Only knowing that the NHS system is working with a really big ammount of european people that can have the first instinct to leave due the insecurity about what will happen, that I really think that will be a BIG inmediat impact that everyone will feel. 

 

I'll follow this topic from near, but, as I thought... there is not written plan for us.

 

Sorry to speack about something that have "nothing to do with me" and really appreciatte your point of view, Outside the job, you are the closest I'm to the british people, so is very good to have some opinions and guesses about the people from here. 

[Gerry H]

This aspect of Brexit isn't a Donald Trump style campaign that's seeking to kick out any non-UK citizens, non whites, non-Christians. There are no plans for an all-encompassing extension to Hadrian's wall. It's more about being able to restrict/control the numbers of people who come into the UK rather than the open door, free-for-all it appears to be.

 

To ease your concerns, I suggest you contact the Out campaigners to ask the question: leave.eu/en/contact-us

[Blatman]

We completely rely on overseas talent from Europe and the rest of the world,

This is a two way street. I travel much of Europe and the USA as my company sells expertise (wins contracts) all over Europe and beyond.

I can't see that CONTROLLING this would have any impact on where I go to work because the UK needs to rely on importing different skill sets in the same way. Trade deals will be quickly established along sensible lines. Trade includes the trade in skills not just goods. Lets please not confuse CONTROL with BAN.

 

Lets imagine we vote out. 

Lets imagine we control what we buy and sell to Germany as an example.

Germany wants to sell us cars and home/white goods (Mercs, Beemers, Audi's, Porsche's VeeDubs, Bosch white goods and power tools, BASF chemicals, the list goes on...).

We want to sell "skills" to Germany.

We say "sell us all the cars/white goods/drills/chemicals you want in exactly the same way and at exactly the same costs as before and we'll let your citizens come and go as they please EXCEPT for work or residence". In return we'd like to sell our goods to you and you continue to allow our citizens to travel to and through Germany without visa's as we do now EXCEPT for work or residence" 

Would they REALLY say no to a perfectly reasonable arrangement?

And for work?

If we did slap a "skills means test" or residency requirements on German migrants, Germany would be free to do the same. They get what they want, we get what we want, which is CONTROL over who is allowed to live and work in our two countries. Control which does not exist now. Those with skills and qualifications that are in demand can continue to ply their trades as they do now.

[corsechris]

Quite agree BM.

 

There is no way I can see things turning into a Europe wide 'tit-for-tat' style p******** match if we do exit - the folk in charge are just too pragmatic (selfish) for that to happen.  Life will go on very much as before, but we will have more control of our own destiny.

 

The folk who come here to work will always be welcome in my view. What we need to be doing is sorting out the home-grown, feckless, work-shy wastes of skin that we have far too many of...but that's a whole different topic!

[XTR2Turbo]

My prediction is that if we vote to leave there will actually be a proper renegotiation as the EU really won't want us to leave as there are a number of other countries that could quickly follow.

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

It irritates me when Remainers say "do you want to be like Norway, Canada, Iceland...?"

 

I'm sure they don't mean insigificant and tiny (Canada may have a massive land area but it's a small country in all other measures). GB, with or without Scotland, is a huge country - fifth largest economy in the world. As Blatters says, they wouldn't want to kill the goose that lays the golden egg by refusing to buy GB goods while we buy more of theirs than they buy of ours. Germany is the Fat Controller in the EU and they would have the most to lose from a trade war. Equally, they and we benefit from an exchange of personnel so why would they rock that boat either?

[Mooch]

My prediction is that if we vote to leave there will actually be a proper renegotiation as the EU really won't want us to leave as there are a number of other countries that could quickly follow.

Spot on.  And then probably another vote post reformation process.  The EU has form on this qv Ireland, Holland, Denmark, Greece......

 

You have to vote out first to get that, though.  They won't do it without.

[Blatman]

It irritates me when Remainers say "do you want to be like Norway, Canada, Iceland...?"

You'll notice they conveniently forget Switzerland when they talk about this too. It's an argument predicated on the ignorance of the listener not knowing (or forgetting) that the Swiss are not in Europe. Oh how they have suffered...