Brexit

[DamperMan]

What I'm pleased with. It's blowing apart politics. Maybe we'll get some politicians to in touch with the people they serve,. We just need need the dust to settle. It's been just one working day since the touch paper was lite.

[dombanks]

I can't answer that question. Simply I don't know. I suspect info is not yet fully avaiable as the program is still running.

For FP7 I believe we put in <6bn and got out >8bn. Generally speaking the uk tied with Germany for the top spot in funding. Meaning we were allocated the bigger share. It is generally accepted we get a good deal out of this.

2020 is a different beast. Gone are the days of you getting some cash going to your shed and doing science. It's all about collaboration and going big no one place is good enough with the right expertise. Successfull grants these days cover multi disciplines and massive institutes on a global scale.

We will still have to pay into the EU to do science, out or in, as our science needs to maintain access. Cern, ESRF, ESA, EMBO, ESO to think of a few.

Of the 4.8bn you mention I would guess a 1/4 ish goes direct to HEFCE give or take. this is the money that runs the universities. It's what keeps the doors open for our young to get educated at the level we need to stay internationally competitive. It's a proven thing that a highly educated populous produces wealth in terms of GDP. The £ value is less than it used to be due to the tuition fees but that's a different story. The rest will be split between the research councils (used to be 9 or 10) it soon whittles down and science costs crap loads. We have just spent the best part of 250k on an NMR and 160K on a mass spectrometer in chemistry. That's 1 dept in 1 uni for 2 bits of equipment no output yet just the tools (franckly nothing special either) to do the job. 1bn soon goes. So cutting off any source of funding is going to have effect.

Yes I agree if it doesn't go into europe it can get spent directly but at the moment it simply doesn't the govt is cutting spending. I hope it increases so we can simply buy our way in would be great.

But add to this the simple fact that we will be restricting the ability to collaborate is crazy. Even at the mo if we get no money as part of a grant we can still collaborate. Out of the eu we will have to pay to collaborate. I know of at least one consortium that has "asked" the uk part to leave as they fear the application will fail now.

My other half submitted a small one the other day the group was small, the grant was only around ~2m but it's believed (from cetral govt UUK) it would take get past the sift now.

I fear that Germany will take on the UK share of cash, it will suck the global collaborations where we would have gone from us as it is already better funded and better established.

[dombanks]

What I'm pleased with. It's blowing apart politics. Maybe we'll get some politicians to in touch with the people they serve,. We just need need the dust to settle. It's been just one working day since the touch paper was lite.

One can only hope. But can you seriously see gove/bozza/etc do this? Some of their actions have been simply a power grab and now it's on the plate they don't seem to be scrabbling for it.

The worse thing from all of this is the far right bnp/ukip/Britain first seem to have used it to legitimise their voice. Twice today I have witnessed blatant racism. Shouting **** off home **** scum and similar at people. Others I know have also seem it. Is this what we want? I'm ashamed to be called British at the moment if this vote means this is what it has become.

[DamperMan]

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

One can only hope. But can you seriously see gove/bozza/etc do this? Some of their actions have been simply a power grab and now it's on the plate they don't seem to be scrabbling for it.

The worse thing from all of this is the far right bnp/ukip/Britain first seem to have used it to legitimise their voice. Twice today I have witnessed blatant racism. Shouting **** off home **** scum and similar at people. Others I know have also seem it. Is this what we want? I'm ashamed to be called British at the moment if this vote means this is what it has become.

That sort of behaviour is unacceptable IMO.

[Ian Podmore]

Out of interest, who else other than the Swiss, from outside the EU, pay to be part of the framework?

Norwegians

[Captain Colonial]

The worse thing from all of this is the far right bnp/ukip/Britain first seem to have used it to legitimise their voice. Twice today I have witnessed blatant racism. Shouting **** off home **** scum and similar at people. Others I know have also seem it. Is this what we want? I'm ashamed to be called British at the moment if this vote means this is what it has become.

 

This is one of my greatest fears come true, idiots feeling empowered to do this sort of vicious, evil, disgraceful thing, and it's taken off now.  I really hope it can be squashed before it elevates or any violence takes place.  There's simply no place for this anywhere in the world today.  Deeply saddened by it.

 

However, I can equally imagine that it might still have happened if the country had voted Remain and those scum felt upset and wanted to vent their anger.  The difference is that because the nation voted Leave, they feel they have the right to tell non-Brits to leave.

 

Troubling times all around - I wonder whether the light at the end of the tunnel is a ray of hope or a train coming at us.

[SootySport]

I can see the new lot of politicians soon to be re-arranged/voted in, will be much the same as those leaving the scene.  

Retail prices will increase for just about everything and all in all not much will change for a very long time.

My view is most people voted Brexit purely on the immigration issue and I can't see anything changing there.

[Labrat]

Just following on from the science funding mentioned earlier.

 

According to the letter regarding University funding, put out by the leaders of 103 UK Universities last week, of the £73 Billion of income generated in the University sector per year only £3.7 Billion is from the EU. It is sad for those on EU funding as they are directly at risk, however, the Horizon 2020 scheme which replaces FP7 isn't/hasn't been a happy hunting ground for UK researchers. Actually, you don't have to be a member of the EU to apply for 2020 funding (same as NIH/IARPA/DARPA in the states) so in theory you will stand roughly the same chance of receiving funding as you do now, maybe even slightly better. 

 

Sorry for the long list but all these countries are currently eligible for Horizon2020 unless specifically excluded in the call (from the A list general annexes EU 2020 -2014-15):

 

0. Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, American Samoa, Angola, Argentina, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, Colombia, Comoros, Congo (Democratic People’s Republic), Congo (Republic), Costa Rica, Côte d’Ivoire, Cuba, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Fiji, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Ghana, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Buissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kiribati, Korea (Democratic Republic), Kosovo*, Kyrgyz Republic, Lao, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Mauritius, Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nepal, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Palau, Palestine, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Rwanda, Samoa, Sao Tome and Principe, Senegal, Serbia, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Syrian Arab Republic, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Thailand, Timor-Leste, Togo, Tonga, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam, , Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

 

Of course the data I am working with may be wrong as it is someone else's. :-)

 

Luke.

[DamperMan]

This is how I'd start the trade agreement talks...

So eu what levy would you like to put on our goods and services... 10%? Well we'll be fair and do the same for yours. . And since you export more than we export we'll collect more import duties than you. We'll use that money to give cash backs to companies selling there goods into Europe so we are more competive. Or shall we do a deal where you have more to gain...

[dombanks]

Where is the data source for that? From all I've been told your not 100% wrong other than they are eligible to enter in as partners but will revive no money

I know this for Switzerland directly from someone who has a 2020 grant. She is sat right next to me on the sofa. Her words are. Yes the Swiss are part of the consortia and no they get no money, rather the Swiss govt has to contribute their share.

Maybe it's just for them. But as I've heard this from not just her but the C.O.O of the uni then I'm inclined to believe there is some truth.

As most of my friends are trying/have one then there are a lot of misguided people. Hopefully the govt will argue a good deal but today's p*** poor efforts with RBS losing more than our 2015 EU contribution this morning I can't see it yet.

[tolf]

It seems to me that at no point have we been told that the referendum was set in stone.

The politicians could easily turn round and say ' thanks all for voting' but we don't agree so we are not going to leave after all

As both the tories and labour have majority IN thoughts, the public would be struggling to vote either party out in the next election because it would be both of them

[Gerry H]

It seems to me that at no point have we been told that the referendum was set in stone.

The politicians could easily turn round and say ' thanks all for voting' but we don't agree so we are not going to leave after all

As both the tories and labour have majority IN thoughts, the public would be struggling to vote either party out in the next election because it would be both of them

 

You forget the third political force, UKIP.

 

I for one would vote for them on a matter of principal if the current bunch did anything to ignore the will of the electorate.

 

Some democracy that would be if the referendum result were overturned.

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

All this talk of Norway and Switzerland et al, overlooks the simple fact that they are insignificant little countries in comparison with UK.

[CraigHew]

"It seems to me that at no point have we been told that the referendum was set in stone. "

seriously???

we're coming out, end of. I just don't understand why so many normal people can't grasp that.

It may take a while to trigger article 50, which will probably be timed to have minimal market impact but our exit is set in stone. If politicians don't like the answer then they should have never asked the question in the first place.

we're not going to have another referendum to ask us if we were sure...!