Brexit

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

Scott, the quality of dialogue on here is at a level an order of magnitude above that of other forums (fora?) Yes, there have been personal attacks on the Boardroom on the odd occasion in the past, but they are truly few and far between in the grand scheme of things. From what I've seen recently you have little to fear from full and frank discussion among the members.

 

Until the bar opens..... 

[maurici]

Taking in account that 75% of population under 50 was in the remain side... and that the final result have been that tight... you are leaving to your next generation a non wanted situation.

Personally I think have been the biggest mistake ever.

I don't really mind. Unfortunately I'll leave as soon as the exit have a real date. There is not plan for us and is not financially affordable for me to work outside the EU... as I'll have to pay taxes twice... but I have the strong feeling, as a outsider that have been thee biggest mistake ever, and will be recorded in the history books as one of the saddest days on the modern history.

[dombanks]

Before there was a similar framework called FP7. FP6 before that. Don't know prior as my career only really started in 2002. After would expect another.

The reality is real and not doom and gloom. Sorry to be frank about it.

I would hope we get to stay part but our govt track record is not good at funding science in the way it requires and I doubt they are willing to put the sums in. Just a quick poll of my friends and we are at 8M of projects.

Simply for 2020 if we are not in we do not qualify. And if we are looking at joining in the way Swiss/Norway do them we won't get anything either. Govt will need to pay

As it stands nothing has changed it won't till we "press the button" our EU students for the 16/17 yr and probably 17/18 will remain as such. But once out will class as foreign and will have to pay accordingly. Cutting yet another income stream.

Doom and gloom maybe. I would call it looking at the stark reality of what lays ahead. I bumped into the registrar yesterday. By 9am £5m had been wiped off the universities books. We are already facing a 20+M deficit with 150 redundancies looming. That number is going to increase

[dombanks]

Taking in account that 75% of population under 50 was in the remain side... and that the final result have been that tight... you are leaving to your next generation a non wanted situation.

Personally I think have been the biggest mistake ever.

I don't really mind. Unfortunately I'll leave as soon as the exit have a real date. There is not plan for us and is not financially affordable for me to work outside the EU... as I'll have to pay taxes twice... but I have the strong feeling, as a outsider that have been thee biggest mistake ever, and will be recorded in the history books as one of the saddest days on the modern history.

I sort of agree. I also think that we ought to have included 15-18yr olds

[Kevin Jones]

Merkel has made a few interesting comments today as reported at BBC

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said the European Union has "no need to be particularly nasty in any way" in the negotiations with Britain about its exit from the bloc. She insisted that deterring other countries from leaving the EU should not be a priority in the talks. And she added she was not in favour of pushing for a speedy withdrawal.

 

I am reading this as a positive, her thoughts are already turning to how to make the best of where we are.

[DamperMan]

I'm absolutely a supporter of democracy. And I voted out. I have my reasons and these are personally justified. I absolutely understand people's strong beliefs in the other direction and actually often other than a idealistic views it's the effect on real lives. I appreciate both points of view. . And although I might believe something I don't want others to suffer. I think we should now negotiate with the eu with the ultimate threat. realistically we don't need much. Sovereignty over our laws. Control over who lives, works and claims benefits here.

[Cleggy the Spyder Man]

one thing I am getting p******** off about is peoples need to share their strong political/religious views on FB - really gets on my tits

 

anyway that is changing the subject really

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

Have a look at the link I posted yesterday. It suggests that the gun now being held to the head of the EU may be a valuable bargaining tool for a 'proper' revamp of terms. A second referendum, one that returns a decent majority either way, could then be held. We (the major members of the 'club') have allowed the EU to develop too far in a wrong direction and like the frog in the saucepan we have (almost) left it too late to jump out. Luckily we now have the opportunity to either steer it in a direction more to the taste of the populace(s) or to get out of the pan with minimal injuries. UK is far from the only member with a restless population.

 

Democracy is not age dependent - at what age do you become disenfranchised? What price life experience vs naivety and ingenuousness? Is this Logan's Run time? Sorry Maurici but please credit we oldies with the intelligence and responsibility to bequeath a sound country to our descendents without selling their future for today's benefits.

[Captain Colonial]

Off topic but on topic IYSWIM - Cameron's replacement marks the third time in 9 years we'll have had a government we didn't elect.

 

Brown 2007-2010 (unelected)

Coalition 2010-2015 (Did you choose this?  I didn't see it on my ballot)

2016-2020

 

So for 12 out of 13 years in total, we'll been governed by people we didn't directly select at the ballot box.

 

In my eyes, that's very wrong - it's certainly not the definition of democracy.

[Blatman]

Before there was a similar framework called FP7. FP6 before that. Don't know prior as my career only really started in 2002. After would expect another.

The reality is real and not doom and gloom. Sorry to be frank about it.

I would hope we get to stay part but our govt track record is not good at funding science in the way it requires and I doubt they are willing to put the sums in. Just a quick poll of my friends and we are at 8M of projects.

Simply for 2020 if we are not in we do not qualify. And if we are looking at joining in the way Swiss/Norway do them we won't get anything either. Govt will need to pay

As it stands nothing has changed it won't till we "press the button" our EU students for the 16/17 yr and probably 17/18 will remain as such. But once out will class as foreign and will have to pay accordingly. Cutting yet another income stream.

Doom and gloom maybe. I would call it looking at the stark reality of what lays ahead. I bumped into the registrar yesterday. By 9am £5m had been wiped off the universities books. We are already facing a 20+M deficit with 150 redundancies looming. That number is going to increase

 

 

According to this we are planning to spend 5.8 Billion on "science" in the year 2015/2016.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/278326/bis-14-p200-science-and-research-budget-allocations-for-2015-to-2016.pdf

That's a little under 10% of the total 2020 budget which in theory is split 27 ways but in practice (see below) seems to be a fundamentally unfair and flawed way of funding science. Sounds like the EU to me...

How much of the 80 billion euros (60ish billion pounds) did the UK contribute in the first place?

I have no doubt that the 2020 project contributes but is it really that much? And as with many grants they usually have to be repaid at some point. Is this the case with 2020? I realise that all science has an intrinsic value and that many discoveries happen by accident whilst engaged in something else but at some point "we" are going to nee to know how much goes in and what comes out at the end so that we can make an informed decision about what/how/why we fund the sciences.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/2014/nov/07/european-research-funding-horizon-2020

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Mind you, while I agree with the commercial benefits of science spending. I do also believe we need to retain some proportion of philanthropic/speculative spending, on all those proposals that have no immediate or even obvious financial benefit, but that push knowledge further and establish new thinking that every so often WILL get spun off by others into commercial advantage.

[Pistol Pete]

Off topic but on topic IYSWIM - Cameron's replacement marks the third time in 9 years we'll have had a government we didn't elect.

Brown 2007-2010 (unelected)

Coalition 2010-2015 (Did you choose this? I didn't see it on my ballot)

2016-2020

So for 12 out of 13 years in total, we'll been governed by people we didn't directly select at the ballot box.

In my eyes, that's very wrong - it's certainly not the definition of democracy.

Not sure how it works where you live but down south we vote for a local mp who represents us in the house of commons, only one constituency actually vote for the pm (as their local mp).

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

What does amaze me though is the number of people confidently predicting this or that outcome and acting NOW on that belief.

We are in uncharted waters here, there is no definite outcome, because the whole Brexit affair is a catalyst for change throughout Europe. Some changes will be small, some countries may notice little difference, but I suspect many will be huge, for everyone.

Will they be (on the whole) for the better, or worse?

Well that really depends on whether the doom and gloom merchants and the petty and self absorbed are allowed to dominate, or whether a re-interpreting of goals and ideas and re-connecting with what the population of Europe actually want can happen.

[Blatman]

Have a read of article 50.

I wholeheartedly agree with Dave and (if you hadn't guessed) I am a brexiteer. The issue of reform is important. If the EU reforms and we decide we like it, we can withdraw our Article 50 application.

Article 49 sets out the framework for a country that has left to be able to re-join.

In other words we have not lost any of our choices here.

Our exit vote IS the catalyst for reform and isn't that what we as Brits do best? We stand up and if necessary we WILL stand alone. It has served us well for a millennia or two already. Long may it continue to do so.

 

Another key consideration here is that we, the majority of the UK population, have spoken. Usually that doesn't mean much. The good and decent politicians in office will recognise they are out of touch with the majority of the population and should seek to rectify that. In doing that at the same time as influencing the EU reforms (and we ARE influencing EU reforms whether they like it or not) we have already begun to shape things that I hope will prove advantageous for the UK and EU in the medium to long term. Suddenly we (the UK) have some real power here that hopefully cannot be as diluted as it was if we went for the status quo.

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

Quite so, Old Bean!