jeff oakley Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 It is interesting how this is swinging from one extreme to another. I can understand the fear that is being spoken about. Many companies are trying to tell their staff how to vote by pointing out they would be out of work or production moved elsewhere. How do they know this? The reality is that no one knows and the fear of the UK exiting is greater in the EU than it is here and the simple reason is we are a strong economy who pays a heavy price for membership. If we leave what about the others who will see us as a beacon of democracy where the people, not unelected mandarins dictate what we want our country to be like. We look other countries who have control of their borders and it works for them. They take the people they want and need. They do not take the likes of Roma Gypsies who are hated by their own country, but we have to. As for research in science, if we were not paying for crackpot studies funded by the EU then there would be a huge chunk of money to invest in all sorts of projects. For me, the biggest issue is simple, we have ended up here because successive spineless British governments have given away so much to the none elected mandarins that we have now lost control. The common market was a good idea, what it is now is absurd. Whatever the outcome we need to then draw a line under it and move on with some strength and purpose. We are still a great United Kingdom, full of enterprise and hard work. We need to be able to hold on to that wealth and spend it how we decide for the best for our people, not some goat herder in Turkey who will retire at 55 whilst we work until 67 and upwards to pay for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 If you have an hour to spare, this piece is well worth a watch. This movie gives all the arguments for why we should consider leaving but without the hysteria. https://youtu.be/eYqzcqDtL3k That hits home very well. Definitely worth a watch.. would be interested to hear if any of it is stretching the truth.. or even lies? How come Switzerland, a non member, sitting smack bang it the middle of the Eurozone, is doing so well?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooch Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 That hits home very well. Definitely worth a watch.. would be interested to hear if any of it is stretching the truth.. or even lies? How come Switzerland, a non member, sitting smack bang it the middle of the Eurozone, is doing so well?? In the interests of balance, here's the view of a Swiss national responding to the claims that all is rosy there. https://youtu.be/MsNXmfqQqOU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Colonial Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Not going to comment or give an opinion - I'm just utterly, utterly sick of wall to wall lies and scare tactics from both sides. This is no democracy any more. This is a huge, high stakes reality show, produced to the lowest standards, where the makers think the voters have a two minute attention span and need a different ludicrous new bit of false info every day to keep us watching to the end - but there is no end. They are using modern communication and social media to outrage you and I in whatever flavour you like on demand to suit your busy schedule. I can remember when you had to wait for the 6 PM news, the 10 PM news, or the morning paper to be outraged. Now you can be manipulated and outraged at your own convenience - there's progress for you. One thing - it's more than a little ironic that a man who can't even pronounce his own surname correctly bangs on about keeping immigrants out of the U.K. and prevent them from taking "our jobs" when his own wife is a German that he pays about £100k in taxpayer's money per year to be his secretary - nice work if you can get it. Farage is the UK's Donald Trump in that what's scary is not that he says preposterous, ludicrous things and makes them up as he goes along, it's that he actually believes them. I really think that neither of them genuinely know what they're going to say next and are as surprised as the people listening to them.when they do say it. I've lost all patience and faith in politics and politicians. Not that you could tell from my post, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I remember watching question Time 20 years ago and you would have heavy hitting politicians and captains of industry. Look who is on it now. Poets, Newspaper Columists and celebrities. It's all just soundbites. Why would anyone of any capability chose to go into politics today given the media focus on them, their family and their personal life. It really is a concern that in the UK we are being ruled by largely professional politicians that are more selected on media image than knowledge, experience and judgement. Perhaps that is why the two that you have singled out have managed to get such a strong following. They speak to what their voters want not the PC media and Westminster village and so demonstrate conviction at least. Thatcher had many faults and divided opinion, same as Foot and Kinnock but atleast they had conviction. That may be yet something that saves Corbyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I agree with both the last posts in many ways. The issue is we are fed what we have become able to absorb and the journalists have become lazy, more interested in did Johnny Depp smack his wife, that probably the most important thing we will vote on. If that Kardashian woman told her followers to vote in the would listen to her in a heart beat. There are still politicians of merit and conviction, but they are not photogenic, not natural orators and as a result are always kept in the background. The bit that annoys me the most is how on the 6.00am news they will say Cameron (add whatever name is in vogue) will today announce a blah blah blah at a press conference this afternoon and then go on to tell us what he will say. It annoys the hell out of me that we are treated like children with a short attention span who will never notice or soon forget. With Farage, in my opinion he has been consistent, he has not said all immigration is bad, much has done us good, what he has said is we should decide who we want to take to enhance our country regardless of where in the world they come from. At present we see people from outside the EU blocked when they could contribute more than a Romanian potato picker who we have no choice in taking. I will be glad when it is over but the surge in the leave voters in the latest poles followed the rise in immigration, which is a single issue and a small part of the overall problems of the EU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanspoors Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Scott, I think you failed on the "Not going to give a comment" part of your post. .... when his own wife is a German that he pays about £100k in taxpayer's money per year to be his secretary - nice work if you can get it. I don't think that figure is correct at all. She was being paid around £30k until the European parliament outlawed employing family members, I think she receives much less now around £800 a month for the work she does for UKIP. P.S. - It's his name, I'm sure he's allowed to pronounce it however he wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cast iron Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 No one can predict the outcome if leave or stay wins, there are no facts. Uncertainty in the financial side if we leave, but nothing more, might be better might be worse dismal mud slinging has turned me off. I feel the only option is a spoiled paper.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrie Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Its not just me then Whatever happens, the country will still be run by a bunch of,... well words fail me. We all know that a group of countries that cooperate will do better than a group that argues, but the politicians have just screwed it all up. There must be a billion people that would like to live here. Can they all come, or should we select and how. Why do we have to pay so much for so little And we voted these people in - how can we complain about the ones we didn't vote in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 And we voted these people in Only some of them. People like Kinnock and Mandelson only got their EU jobs after the UK voters EXPRESSLY REJECTED them by not voting for them. That can't be right, and we can't be the only country who's politicians put their cronies up for plum EU jobs when they lose their seats. Tat part of the EU is an absolute farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Pete Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 This morning for the first time ever.. I watched a bit of EU parliament live.. how sad.. i stuck it for about an hour, and what was coming over was the EU is not doing well at all, and how can they prop it up some more? These MEPs as far as I know are just debating, and can't actually do anything about ..anything? It's the "unelected" EU council that sits above them that make the decisions, is that right? Nigel Farage gave what sounded like a resignation speech. "If you want more money, just ask David Cameron" .. and ended with "I'm leaving now, I may be quite some time" then walked out. I also watched that "Debate" on ITV last night, Cameron v Farage.. that was a total waste of time. I don't think any of the questions on either side got a satisfactory answer, and very little time allocated for a come back at them? ..That's not a debate. Let's get the hell out! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Osborne doing a great job for the leave campaign on BBC1 right now .... ah he is on the remain side .. oops Treasury net migration forecast nearly 3m over the next 14 years !! Andrew Neil is not holding back ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamperMan Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Only some of them. People like Kinnock and Mandelson only got their EU jobs after the UK voters EXPRESSLY REJECTED them by not voting for them. That can't be right, and we can't be the only country who's politicians put their cronies up for plum EU jobs when they lose their seats. Tat part of the EU is an absolute farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamperMan Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 My main issue now is that it's a blanket of lies... Both sides are as bad as each other. We are not voting on a party but the future of the U.K. Farage talking on behalf of exit is also expressing ukip views not necessarily true exit. But Cameron struggles as he has made promises he can't keep. I'm still in the exit camp but it thrustrates me how no advise is impartial and we need to filter the lies. And it really pisses me the Europe are threatening us. So these are supposed to be friends.. Totally in helpful! if we are not friends do we want to be in that club and give them more power over our country... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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