Brexit

[Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO]

I'm old enough to have voted first time around, and at the time it seemed like a good idea, now I'm not so sure.

One thing is certain, if they gave us true facts instead of all the scaremongering, they might get more people to vote.

[CraigHew]

I honestly don't have a view either way. 

 

Boris is certainly a bafoon in my eyes although DC was daft enough to put his willy into a dead pigs mouth???

 

I think what is innevitable is that the "average bloke" wont be any better or worse off which ever way it goes.

 

If the country ends up "better off" the government will deploy the new-found wealth on more foreign aid or build a few more mosques.

 

If we're worse off there'll be a marginal increase in a variety of taxes to balance things out.

[DamperMan]

I'm in 2 minds.... and really struggling but I know my heart tells me to vote.       

 

Quite honestly the BS about the future is almost laughable if it wasn't really the advise we are supposed to make a massive decision on.   

 

My humble opinion....   The "club" we are a member of has mostly been good for us.  If the Club was not going to change then I think we'd be better to stay in and sort out our own deals.   The problem is the club is becoming less European.   Its becoming bigger and we will get less say.  Every country in Europe is in it for there own good and not for the good of Europe.  Asl we become smaller and we continue to play by the rules we'll sink even lower.

 

If we leave our nearest neighbours will not do us any favours on trade deals etc as they will not want the UK to do well and other countries to leave the EEC.  

 

The talk for free trade deals with the US or other countries outside Europe can't happen if we want a deal with Europe.  or we'd simply become a back door for imports from the US etc and that would not be allowed.  We really need to think about the overall deal we want not just create a free trade deal with the US and then not be able to export to Europe competitively

 

Our leaders I have no faith in, and don't think are able to actually get a decent divorce settlement which is a major concern.   We'd probably agree to all the reasons we want to leave but have non of the benefits.  Like immigration.

 

Our leaders have not been able to capitalize on the opportunities like Germany has.  Germany are not the villains they have simply made use of the opportunities which we have failed to grasp or take advantage of.   

 

Normal economics is such that if a country is doing very well its currency becomes stronger making it harder to export but imports become cheaper for the country benefiting its neighbours.   It acts as a natural control to stop single countries becoming to rich and powerful.    But with the single currency this has not been the case so Germany has been able to continue to grow and export to the whole of Europe very successfully at the expense of other countries.     

 

Free trade.. This should have been really good but we have failed to capitalize on this and now have very little to export so it makes very little difference....   Germany has created its own protectionist invisible barriers to entry of goods.  Such as TUV where if you want to sell goods in Germany they have to comply to there own regulations.. These extends many many goods. It protects not just there small industries but their massive ones to.   TUV approvals are not hard to achieve just its a lot more expensive and time consuming to get approvals if your outside Germany.  

 

Other countries in Europe flaunt the rules or find ways around them.   The steel industry is an example.     The governments of these other countries support there own industries by ensuring low rates, low energy costs and when there are slowdowns pay the wages of workers to work 1/2 hours etc.   Yet we make deals with the Chinese to allow them to dump steel in return we get nuclear power stations build by the french!.   This is not europe's fault this is our own.

 

The Value of the Euro needs to be weakened/ kept low against world markets so mostly Germany can export not just in Europe but to emerging economies.   Having basket cases like Greece or adding others allows the euro value down.    Germany can keep exporting and doing well, but mainly at the expense of other countries within Europe.  

 

 I think in the short term it will hit the UK economy hard especially while the Divorce is being made and there is a lot of uncertainty.    Long term if we can be come self sufficient again and independent then when Europe falls apart as it certainly will we'll be in a much better position but that may be in 20 years or more.   

 

Rant over....

[Captain Colonial]

Just to throw a grenade into the room...

Remember how one of the big selling points for Scottish independence was self-sufficiency from the profits of selling North Sea oil at £110 per barrel? I sometimes wonder where Scotland would be now if they were independent and with today's oil prices of £40 per barrel.

[DamperMan]

And then there are some minor considerations... How would we control flow of goods and people between northern island and southern. Then if Scotland deserted us.. Would we need touch up hadrians wall ?

[Stuart]

Well I've just watched the Vote Leave referendum broadcast and it was so sh*te I'm starting to think the Remain lot are ringing it.

[jeff oakley]

It is a very difficult situation but history has shown time and time again that when times are difficult people need someone to blame. Austria has come very close to electing a right wing leader, unthinkable a few years ago but with all the stories of immigrants giving rise to crime in mainland Europe, this is just the start of people rising up against those telling us they know best.

When the monetary union went tits up we came out, we were finished according to the EU and yet we prospered. We were able to control our economy, where as Greece had no control dictated by Brussels and Merkle they are still a basket case. Had they control they could have devalued the currency and made exports and tourism attractive, instead they are still in deep hock with no end in sight.

The UK imports more from the EU than we export. so if trade barriers were imposed, if we had a leader with balls we could do likewise. Look what the states have done with Chinese steel, whilst we have sat back and watched the industry die in the UK.

I love Europe and the people, it is the unelected string pullers in Brussels I distrust and dislike. It is a corrupt money hungry monster which needs reform, if we stay in that will not happen and more unsuitable members will join and suck funds out of us. When Cameron says we will lose jobs, how many manufacturing jobs went to Poland and Hungry when they joined, bolstered by cheap loans, cheap labour and cheap land funded by us?

Many of us will not live to see what it will become if it is allowed to carry on unchecked our children will live with it.

[Lyonspride]

I had no real opinion on "brexit", not that is until they started painting EU opposition as being racist.... As soon as they start calling you racist you know your hitting a nerve, because anyone that has a non-conformist opinion is labelled as racist just to shut them up and to tarnish their reputation so that nobody listens to them.

[Blatman]

My take...

 

Control of borders is a two way street. If we raise the drawbridge, it is possible the continental European nations could start to insist on visa's for both work and play. That puts costs up for those who sell human expertise or want to holiday in Europe.

 

Free from EU legislation. Again a two way street. Whilst we are in we have the veto, in theory. If we exit, we lose the ability to affect EU law. What happens if they slap a tax on banks trading when done with the UK? It could be as simple as a fee when sending money abroad, to multi-million euro/pound share or takeover deals. If we're out, we can't veto the imposition of that sort of thing. I'd love to hear the City view on this.

 

Trade deals. We buy far more from the EU than we sell. Take German cars and white goods as an example. And French cars for that matter. And French electricity. Or Italian cars. Or Spanish holidays. Or holidays in general. I would hope that many European countries would be keen to keep selling to us which should put us in a position to negotiate good trade deals, and quickly.

 

And all that ignores the world economy. Many of the things we rely on are traded in dollars. Oil springs to mind. Most of our telly comes from Hollywood. Plenty of our cars are made by Ford or GM. Our steel isn't imported from the EU but from China, along with LOTS and LOTS of our every day items. Our PC's, phones, TV's, DVD players are mostly made in China/Korea. Microsoft, Apple and Google (Android) are not European. To my mind the EU is arguably based on geographical convenience rather than any coherent trade policy.

 

Is it a risk getting out? Dunno. It was just as big a risk getting in and it seems that having sampled the goods, we're wondering of we made a good choice. At least this time it'll be US who decide, rather than those with a vested interest.

I think the most important thing is this; whether we vote in or out we should accept it and move on with conviction and purpose.

[litcoat]

Why the hell did they open this can of worms in the first place, they're all dithering over an absolute load of bo##rocks, there isn't one of them that can give concrete facts and with all this uncertainty project finance is getting more difficult as if it wasn't bad enough already

[jeff oakley]

The simple reason we are having this vote was to stop Labour winning at the last Election. The rise of UKIP was seen as a significant risk to the unity of the Tories so Cameron offered this to buy votes.

 

I bet he wishes he never made this promise as now we are really having a hard time and whatever the outcome we are in for a rough year or so as the fall out continues.

 

The level of information is poor especially factual information. At present we get opinion and guess work from those on both sides with an agenda but little facts.

 

The establishment have wheeled out those who aren't really without bias, IMF, BOE, business leaders and the Unions who predict that an independent UK will somehow reverse all employment law!

 

I speak with many people and what is frightening is that the public is asked to make a decision for the future of the UK and yet they are unable to do that from an informed position.

[Thrustyjust]

Just to throw a grenade into the room...

Remember how one of the big selling points for Scottish independence was self-sufficiency from the profits of selling North Sea oil at £110 per barrel? I sometimes wonder where Scotland would be now if they were independent and with today's oil prices of £40 per barrel.

Remember that Salmon and Halibut or whatever her name is always said that the oil wasnt the staple diet to keep Scotland alive after they 'won' independance. Remember the oil refinery that went bust due to greedy unions , not realising the fragility of the oil world. It was just an excuse to think that Scotland would be self supportive without us. I have many scottish friends , all willing to move south if it did come to fruition. There is many other views on this from pro supporters, but thats politics. Oil is a diminishing commodity. We will all be driving non oil using cars in the future. That is a fact. So to believe in a dying operation to support your country after independance was just plain daft.

Getting back to the vote in hand. I think I'll just send Quinten my vote. Save me the hassle of getting it wrong. You cant trust the media for truthful reporting, the politicians for their rubbish they spout, so truth is , I dont really have a scooby doo on who to believe.

[tisme]

I think the most important thing is this; whether we vote in or out we should accept it and move on with conviction and purpose.

 

Absolutely spot on - though I think a number of politicians on both sides have burnt their bridges (but then some are "retiring" in the not to distant future so why would they care )

 

I must admit I'm waiting for the forecast of a plague of locusts (as in insects, not "7" style kitcars) and an imminent impact with an asteroid or two.......

 

But I do find that the remain campaign come across as so negative and unambitious for the future of the British people - as if being in the EU is the only "safe" place for an easy life where we'll all be taken care of !!

[Mooch]

Well I've just watched the Vote Leave referendum broadcast and it was so sh*te I'm starting to think the Remain lot are ringing it.

I thought the same.  Why the emphasis on the NHS? Puerile and insulting.  

[noggin]

I'm not sure either way. My postal vote card arrived yesterday and it's sitting on the mantlepiece glaring at me. I think it's an 'out' for me. I'm sure leaving the EU will cause all sorts of upsets for ten years or so and then things will settle down. In that case I truly believe we'll look at the state of the EU and be glad we left.