corsechris Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 The fact that the only noise coming out of the EU seems to be in favour of us staying in tips my hand - get out quick 'cos you know they ain't saying that for our benefit.... Alternatively.... If something clearly isn't working, try doing something else. ...and finally in a really shocking turn of events, I happened to catch an interview on the news the other day where a 'leave camp' politician was being grilled and he steadfastly refused to be drawn into making wild claims - he told the honest truth that nobody knows what will happen either way. (ETA, what I found surprising was anyone, regardless of which camp they were in, was willing to speak a simple truth - nobody knows what will happen) Posted my vote. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooch Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 If you have an hour to spare, this piece is well worth a watch. This movie gives all the arguments for why we should consider leaving but without the hysteria. https://youtu.be/eYqzcqDtL3k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 Watch out for the ads half way though... The full debate is here: From the short version, Clegg reeling of the pitfalls of leaving only to be told none of them are EU issues is telling (to me at least). There is also the interesting issue that when we (UK voters) as a democracy remove "bad" politicians from office, enough of them seem to get jobs as un-elected officials in Europe (Kinnock and Mandelson spring to mind. I'm sure there are many more). Thirdly the REQUIRED BY LAW movement of the entire Brussels parliament to Strasbourg every month at a cost of many millions is an absolute scandal. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 David Davis MP writes an interesting piece in the Saturday Telegrpah this weekend. There's also Charles Moore for a more typically Telegraph view as well. Both Leave supporters but not quite of the ranting persuasion. I am still on the fence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 David Davis MP writes an interesting piece in the Saturday Telegrpah this weekend. There's also Charles Moore for a more typically Telegraph view as well. Both Leave supporters but not quite of the ranting persuasion. I am still on the fence... Watch the 17 minute video I posted above. That may help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 Watch the 17 minute video I posted above. That may help... Thanks Blatters, will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 Well, Hannan is passionate, and persuasive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombanks Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 If we leave the EU there is a very large possibility I and many of my fellow scientists will be out of job. I suspect I will probably follow many of my counterparts into europe if I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsechris Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 If we leave the EU there is a very large possibility I and many of my fellow scientists will be out of job. I suspect I will probably follow many of my counterparts into europe if I can. Why do you say that Dom? I appreciate science funding is a complex topic, but a brief precis from your perspective would be interesting to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolf Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 I'm not sure much will change if we exit the EU, despite all the scaremongering we are currently receiving From the media. We will still need to trade with companies in foreign countries, they will appreciate the income, Brussels will take ages to decide any new laws to be followed in order to trade with the UK. Unless we totally close our borders then people will still migrate to the UK. We could adopt a stance such as the U.S. with visas or OZ where you need a guaranteed job or sponsor, but then this still has issues. Wish the govt would start treating folk as grown ups and give us the facts not a lot of rhetoric. I thought we were supposed to be a democratic country........ Maybe not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombanks Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 Why do you say that Dom? I appreciate science funding is a complex topic, but a brief precis from your perspective would be interesting to see. There is a lot of EU money funding science research in this country. Simply, out we will not be eligible for the same reason non EU nationals are not eligible. Much of my career has been funded by EU in one way or another including the facility I did my PhD at. My partners funding is ~80%. Several of my friends have recently got grants that contribute much to all of their work or are in Europe at the moment. Given how the funding structures work we will be removed from the horizon 2020 framework and as we are not part of another we will be isolated. I doubt it will be cut the next day and that is that but EU grants are very strict so it wouldn't surprise me if they were phased out quickly. I doubt govt will increase funding in the same way given their current trend towards cutting it. So it falls back into that eternal question that no one can answer as to what the effect will be. Rumor in the community is access to some of the major research will end up a bit restricted but that's just Rumor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 This exactly the sort of information we don't have as voters! Much of countryside is maintained due to EU based funding & many hill/moorland farmers would struggle to survive without it. There's so much we don't understand, but have to take a punt on way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombanks Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 This exactly the sort of information we don't have as voters! Much of countryside is maintained due to EU based funding & many hill/moorland farmers would struggle to survive without it. There's so much we don't understand, but have to take a punt on way or another. I agree people just do not see where it is used as it happens on a level above most of us If you live in the northwest i would estimate that you have been the recipient of something good from the EU. One way or another. but its so complicated that use mere mortals cant really get it. The knock on effect into local economy is huge. from a HE point of view it is estimated that the two big universities in liverpool account for 1/5 of the local economy. The Northwest development agency has put £Bn into the local area over the last 20yrs. all of this feeds into the local economy in terms of simply hard cash for people to spend as prosperity has increased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooch Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 We are net contributors to the EU. All the money coming back from the EU was ours to start with, but is returned with strict rules as to where it can be spent. I'd rather like us to be able to decide where we spend our tax money, be it to scientific research or filling potholes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombanks Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I would be very surprised if the govt funded science in the way it needs given the way it has cut funding over the last years. Last grant the Mrs was on was £10M which is big. But a simple grant request to employ me for 2yrs with consumables and bench fees will easy hit 300K chuck in a few PhD students, money for a few undergrad projects, money for capital equipment and £1M is easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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