Terry Everall Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 IMHO and from sprinting the Busa wit standard engine , mistral 1400 and then the 1548cc there is not much that even gets near it for off the line acceleration. On hills or longer straights the CEC will out drag it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 From experience I'd agree with Sir Greg's figures, when I had the blade in my car I was lapping consistently at the same pace as a Westfield race series car with ~170bhp, and with the R1 its very similar in performance to Superlight Rs etc with ~190-200bhp. I agree with Jeff etc on the acceleration of a BEC, off the line it will beat significantly more powerful CECs partly because of the way the power is delivered, partly because of the sequential box. One thing to consider which Jeff is touching on is torque or lack of in a Busa engine, it will suffer on acceleration and also @ high speeds, so this would have a bearing when trying to compare apples with bananas. Don't dig up that old chestnut as well Compared to a vastly more powerful engine obviously that will be the case, but if pitted against an equally powerful car engine of equal overall weight or a slightly more powerful car that weighs a bit more, a bike engine will not suffer in acceleration or top speed even though the car engine may have 50% more engine torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cast iron Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 If you look at the Speed series i think the class structure is pretty good Last year when Terry had his 1.3 Busa against Nanas in his 2.0 VX they swapped times a 1.6 Westy or 7 against the blades swapped times also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Surely the CR sequential gearbox is a major factor in the lower power of the BEC keeping pace with a higher powered CEC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Yep, the sequential box and probably on average about 80-100kgs less weight in an equivalent spec car all help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Nanas car has a lot more than 200bhp. More like 250 bhp and is very lightweight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo-mark Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 agree with you Terry track orientated cec aren't as heavy as people may think Jeff has just had his car ( your old car) weighed and it's not that much lighter than my cec we worked out with drivers added it's about the same as Jeff is a BIT heavier than me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo-mark Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 from my experience on track a standard busa is similar performance to something around 250bhp in a cec Hmmm . not sure i agree with that Jeff your old green busa seemed fitter than some of the standard busa's i've come up against on track at oulton park i was chasing a well driven megabusa and defo reeling it in on the straights i'm on record saying my 200 + bhp cec is on parr with a standard busa and i still stand by that .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conibear Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Don't dig up that old chestnut as well Compared to a vastly more powerful engine obviously that will be the case, but if pitted against an equally powerful car engine of equal overall weight or a slightly more powerful car that weighs a bit more, a bike engine will not suffer in acceleration or top speed even though the car engine may have 50% more engine torque. Chris, I am only comparing a 1.3L Busa 7 against a 200bhp car engined 7 both with exact same spec. Lets look at the figures: So Jeff's 1.3 Busa has a PTW ratio of 343bhp. The same spec car but with a 200bhp VX weigh circa 550kg has a PTW ratio of 363bhp, so without even considering the difference in torque figures which assists you very nicely from standing starts and accelerating out of hairpin type corners, the 200bhp VX has to be quicker which answers the question of this thread I am not taking in to consideration, driving styles, tyres, suspension setup, transmissions, I am basing my comments on two very similar spec cars but with differing engines. And the calculation cannot lie How come, a 7 type car with 200bhp -175lb ft of torque pull away quicker from hairpin type corners and start lines quicker than a lower powered 1.1 kwaker or 1.3 Busa bike engine car such as a Radical, is it because the Radical driver is dog poo, or the Radical weighs too much, no grip or could it be something to do with Torque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seer Posted September 11, 2007 Author Share Posted September 11, 2007 What a wealth of information!! This is certainly helping me to make a choice in the correct selection of a WF. Most of you seem to agree that 175 h.p. Busa is equivalent to that of a CEC with just over 200 h.p. I dare say this has to be true considering the power to weight figures. I've just seen a Yellow Bird appear on Pistonheads.com with apparentley 170 bhp. A reasonable asking price it is too for this kind of power to weight, considering the price of a Busa. Am I missing something??? Thank you to all for your comments and valuable info so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo-mark Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 megabirds are over looked but are value for money this one is cheap but 4 owners in 1,800 miles .. another good buy not road legal tho but without doubt my choice has to be this buy me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzer Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Don't dig up that old chestnut as well Compared to a vastly more powerful engine obviously that will be the case, but if pitted against an equally powerful car engine of equal overall weight or a slightly more powerful car that weighs a bit more, a bike engine will not suffer in acceleration or top speed even though the car engine may have 50% more engine torque. Chris, I am only comparing a 1.3L Busa 7 against a 200bhp car engined 7 both with exact same spec. Lets look at the figures: So Jeff's 1.3 Busa has a PTW ratio of 343bhp. The same spec car but with a 200bhp VX weigh circa 550kg has a PTW ratio of 363bhp, so without even considering the difference in torque figures which assists you very nicely from standing starts and accelerating out of hairpin type corners, the 200bhp VX has to be quicker which answers the question of this thread I am not taking in to consideration, driving styles, tyres, suspension setup, transmissions, I am basing my comments on two very similar spec cars but with differing engines. And the calculation cannot lie How come, a 7 type car with 200bhp -175lb ft of torque pull away quicker from hairpin type corners and start lines quicker than a lower powered 1.1 kwaker or 1.3 Busa bike engine car such as a Radical, is it because the Radical driver is dog poo, or the Radical weighs too much, no grip or could it be something to do with Torque Interestingly I reckon my Busa had better drive out of corners than my mates 208BHP VX. We were runing the same tyres. I would get a better drive out of the bends he would then reel me in slightly at around 80-90mph. If I was in front though I could use better braking etc to pull a gap. But I do have to say though even with the standard 175bhp I have never been trounced down a straight by any 7 type car. Should be good fun now though the TurboBusa got rolling roaded at emerald last week and made 285BHP :-) I reckon its still just about sub 500Kgs too. Bazzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffC Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 as Jeff is a BIT heavier than me dont get too used to it, had the bike out twice this week in an attempt to decrease in weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oioi Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 agree with you Terry track orientated cec aren't as heavy as people may think Jeff has just had his car ( your old car) weighed and it's not that much lighter than my cec and whilst we talk about the power to weight figure of the car, the real power to weight figure is with driver included. for some rough figures - say a 200bhp cec weighing in at 550kg. - 363bhp/te 170bhp bec weighing in at 500kg. - 340bhp/te add me (all 90kg of lurrrve) 200bhp cec with driver - 640kg - 312.5bhp/te 170bhp bec with driver - 590kg- 288bhp/te in the first case the power to weight difference is 6.8% (in favour of the cec) and in the second its 8.5% (the real world figure). And if your going to take a passenger out that percentage difference will increase again. of course you can debate the starting numbers to your hearts content but the underlying maths is the same. The less power you have, as soon as you start adding weight the more you will be affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludo Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I've just seen a Yellow Bird appear on Pistonheads.com with apparentley 170 bhp. A reasonable asking price it is too for this kind of power to weight, considering the price of a Busa. Am I missing something??? I saw this one too, looks nice but 3 owner and so little mileage seems a bit fishy no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.