adamnreeves Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Well for those that are interested I took my suspension apart this afternoon. 6 Hours later... Tapped out all the inserts by putting an M8 nut, bolt and washer through it and all came out OK. Convieniently (sp?) found that my dremel had a sanding thingy (tech term) that was spot on the right size to take out some of the nylon from the bore of the bush. By taking a bit out at a time I managed to get it so the sleeves were as loose as they were before I installed them. Upon reassembling the suspension it now moves significantly more freely than before, so I'm glad I went to all the effort of putting it right. There was no way I was going to be able to get the nylon bushes out without damaging them. I tried one and was reluctant to hit it any harder. At least the suspension should work like it's supposed to now. Phew Well I have been to the gym so not done all my wishbones. I took one off and managed to get the inserts out to prove to myself it could be done. I have yet to increase the bore diameter. This is how I did. 1. Get a block of 2 x 2 " wood and drilled a hole through it using an 18mm bit. 2. Clamped the wood in a vice. 3. Placed wishbone bush mount over the hole so the insert was in the middle of hole. 4. Got a M14! bolt which sits on the edge of the insert. 5. Whacked the M14 bolt hard about 3 times did it. no damage and chuffed at that. Now I just need to get my dremel out, I think I know the bit you are talking about. Glad you got them out ok, just make sure you follow the instructions given to you on here this time..... I didn't ignore any advice given last time, I just didn't get it in time and I thought I knew what I was doing so I just carried on! Anyway I have decided that I am not going to remove the bushes just the inserts (I know against some advice). The nylon bits are in so tight, I tried to remove but it started to damage it and I figured that I may as well try to resolve without removal, less to lose. I know they were in okay because one point I did see before installing these was ensure that there are no lumps of powder coat that it is even and I did take some sandpaper to the powder coat before I installed them I just didn't take it down to bare metal. I thought I'd try using emery cloth wrapped around a M14 bolt and increase the bore of the bush. Got my verniers and see that it was 15.80 and I need at least 16.10mm. It still took my best part of 2 hours to do one wishbone and my fingers are sore! But they are perfect, the sleeves can be inserted by hand easily and are not that loose that they drop out unless you tap the bone, they turn in the bus by using thumb and forefinger quite easily, almost feels like the sleeve is floating as no friction can be felt, they rotate and do not move in any other direction. Well at this rate it is going to take another 14 hours with the emery cloth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Yupright Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Having read through various threads and talking to people, this is what I have done , right or wrong :- 1) Cleaned out all the powder coating from the inside of the bone, I did this with a Dremmel with a 10mm (approx sanding drum). Becareful that you dont take to much metal. 2) As you get near to having it clean, check the nylon bush for a fit. 3) You will find that where the welding is to the main tubing, this makes the housing for the bush oval and also there may be over welding which will stop the ears of the bush fitting against the metal face of the housing. See point 4 below 4) Once your happy with the inner, clean the powder coating from the outter mating face on the bone. This will ensure that the steel insert is protruding beyond the faces of the bush when offered up to the chassis mounts, a key point to make these bushes work correctly!. 5) When all cleaned and as much welding spots flatened, apply cooper slip or similar to the outter faces of the nylon bushes and insert into bone. This should be a tight fit, probably using a vice a some point. Make sure the two faces (bush and bone) are seating together. 6) Check that the steel insert will go into the bush, if not (and most probably not!!! ) check the difference with a vernier gauge and for oval in the bush. I use the same sanding cylinder as before with a very fine sandpaper to ensure I do not take to much off the bush. Keep checking with the steel insert, once the insert will go in with a little force, but not in a vice!! Remove the insert and coat with copperslip and re-insert. This does take a long time to get right!!!!! 7) When bone is ready to be fitted, check that the ears of the suspension mounts are clean and free from weld spots etc. You will have to open the faces slightly. Offer up the bones to the mounts, insert you copperslipped bolts and secure with nuts etc. Torque to 30-40 lbs/ft and check that the bones move 'freely' by hand. I havent got mine to be 100% stictionless, but they are free moving and no creeking etc! Hope this helps, no doubt someone will say I have done something wrong, but this is the first time Ive done it, so any pointers would will be well received. Stu This is exactly what I did with mine, with the one exception that I didnt have to any of the sanding in number 6. I think if you do the other steps properly, the need for sanding in number 6 should be minimal/none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I think building a Westfield for the first time we all make some mistakes hopefully small ones.If I ever build a second one it will be a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren B Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 If I was fitting them from scratch again then I would do the process exactly as Stu has listed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 I think building a Westfield for the first time we all make some mistakes hopefully small ones.If I ever build a second one it will be a lot easier. Yes, infact, would be easier, faster, better and cheaper! I suppose this is why so many seem to always go on to build another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 If I was fitting them from scratch again then I would do the process exactly as Stu has listed dito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikpro Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I wouldn't fit grease to the outside of the nylon bushes as you don't wan't them to rotate in the wishbones. only grease the metal sleeve that fits into the bushes and the face of the bushes where they but up against the mounts. Sometimes the only answer when you make a mistake is to buy a new part and replace otherwise you will not get the advantage of the bush and might as well have used metalastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 I wouldn't fit grease to the outside of the nylon bushes as you don't wan't them to rotate in the wishbones. only grease the metal sleeve that fits into the bushes and the face of the bushes where they but up against the mounts. Sometimes the only answer when you make a mistake is to buy a new part and replace otherwise you will not get the advantage of the bush and might as well have used metalastic. This isn't a reply for me is it! My nylon bushes will not rotate with or without grease, they are absolutely stuck solid. Yep granted grease the mounting surface and the sleeve. I did this correctly the first time. I think if the bushes are inserted not following the correct procedure then they will be worse than metalastics! so nylons are either miles better or don;t work properly at all! Suffice to say I think what I did, i.e. removing excess from the inside bore of the nylon rather than the wishbone mount is just as good, infact some may argue it is better as the final bore inside the nylon will be more exact and who knows, even if I removed all the powder coat I may have had to fettle the nylon bush bore as well anyway. I am completely happy that the end result is as good as buying replacements and starting again. The bores are spot on I have taken about 20 vernier caliper measurements around the bore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu.graham Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 But they are perfect, the sleeves can be inserted by hand easily and are not that loose that they drop out unless you tap the bone, they turn in the bus by using thumb and forefinger quite easily, almost feels like the sleeve is floating as no friction can be felt, they rotate and do not move in any other direction. Well at this rate it is going to take another 14 hours with the emery cloth. It might be worth putting the completed bush/wishbone in the vice with the steel insert clamped on the jaws to make sure the float you mention doesnt actually gives play when the forces and leverage are applied from the wheel end of the bone, if you see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 But they are perfect, the sleeves can be inserted by hand easily and are not that loose that they drop out unless you tap the bone, they turn in the bus by using thumb and forefinger quite easily, almost feels like the sleeve is floating as no friction can be felt, they rotate and do not move in any other direction. Well at this rate it is going to take another 14 hours with the emery cloth. It might be worth putting the completed bush/wishbone in the vice with the steel insert clamped on the jaws to make sure the float you mention doesnt actually gives play when the forces and leverage are applied from the wheel end of the bone, if you see what I mean. good idea, but if I have taken off too much, then too late! I would need to replace the bush and start again. how can I judge how much stiffness the sleeve should present? I have not done this before and I do not want to have too much trial and error! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu.graham Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 good idea, but if I have taken off too much, then too late! I would need to replace the bush and start again. how can I judge how much stiffness the sleeve should present? I have not done this before and I do not want to have too much trial and error! I would rather know now that I have taken to much off than when it is on the car and your bones are moving about on the steel sleave, especially with the weight of a V8 I have not achieved a stictionless wishbone yet (ie it falls gentle under its own free weight) and its my first time at installing nylon bushes. If I put them in the vice and they are movable with little force from a finger or 2 (not very scientific I know!!!! then I know they should be ok on the mounts if they are clean and free from weld spots etc. If greater force is required, remove sleave and ease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 good idea, but if I have taken off too much, then too late! I would need to replace the bush and start again. how can I judge how much stiffness the sleeve should present? I have not done this before and I do not want to have too much trial and error! I would rather know now that I have taken to much off than when it is on the car and your bones are moving about on the steel sleave, especially with the weight of a V8 I have not achieved a stictionless wishbone yet (ie it falls gentle under its own free weight) and its my first time at installing nylon bushes. If I put them in the vice and they are movable with little force from a finger or 2 (not very scientific I know!!!! then I know they should be ok on the mounts if they are clean and free from weld spots etc. If greater force is required, remove sleave and ease. I have just tried my bone in the vice, works well, it is completely free but does not move in any other direction it is not suppose to. have I done the perfect job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 have I done the perfect job! You'll find the answer to that question in about 2000 miles after you have been over about 10,000 bumps and potholes, not to mention the dreaded speed humps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 have I done the perfect job! You'll find the answer to that question in about 2000 miles after you have been over about 10,000 bumps and potholes, not to mention the dreaded speed humps Do they bed in then. Should I have made it stiffer? starting to sound like a trial 'n' error thing, nooooooooooooooooooo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 As stated I have done one wishbone worth of bushes. So I thought I'd fit to the chassis brackets and torque up all the way to 40Nm. This is rear upper wishbone so not one of the heavy items. I can quite easily move it with my hand pratically no force at all, if I and leave it half way it moves under its own weight way very very slowly, if i press it lightly with my little finger it moves immediately. I am happy with that, should I be? Onto the next one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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