geofff Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Hi, I think I might have cooked my engine taking it to the MOT station and back on Saturday - 4 miles running all in! water temp got into the 100 - 120 range for a short time. Fan kicked in etc..... I'll turn the engine over tonight and listen to how it sounds. Tomorrow evening I'll do a compression test. Anything else I can check out? Would have done this on the weekend but I had a Wedding and a Christening to go to. Passed the MOT So positive point there. Also drove the car for the first time on the road Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8ight Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 did the temp come down quickly and stay down ?? did you lose any coolant ?? how long was it high for ?? what makes you think its cooked ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Hi S8ight, It came down from 115/120 to 100 then I switched it off as I'd got home. I did lose coolant - I'm running a water rail with no expansion tank - advised by WF as being sufficient but I'm not so sure now. The water rail has a cap which springs open at high pressure and reveals vent pipe to atmosphere - this dumped water into the engine bay floor / road. The vent pipe would normally run to a plastic bottle which I'd use to top up the system after a run. I haven't fitted one because the pre-SVA check at WF said to get rid of my "Steppenwolf" plastic oil catch tank so I thought a plastic water catch tank (not expansion tank) would get the same treatment - hence pipe directed to floor / road. It was high for less than a minute (I think). More it 'got cooked' rather than "it's cooked" if you know what I mean. I'll be checking over the next few days. I know the Zetec has an ali head on a cast iron block so would have thought that the head would be the 'sacrificial' part. Skim and new head gasket? But does anything else let go in such a situation? Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Geoff, I don't think it'll dont it much harm. Find out why it happened though, 4 miles is a very short distance (most Zetecs struggle to get to 90 deg!! Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Hi Carl, I know what you mean about about struggling to get up to temp. Before I fitted the water rail the highest it went was 50 deg on the rollers at Aldon Auto's! I then fitted the water rail without expansion tank on advice from WF after a pre- SVA check. It considerably reduced weight and complication in the engine bay area. It ran fine in the workshop - there was a slight weep from the themostat housing which I cured with gasket sealant - ran & checked out in the workshop. I'm wondering if a lean mixture (for SVA by Aldon) coupled with brand new engine and a marginal cooling system has resulted in running high. On the lean mixture front the exhaust was darker (suggesting extra fuel) on warm start up in the workshop when I got back from MOT - just a quick check after I parked up. I have been a little worried about my red top fuel pump as it doesn't "sound" like the one I used to run on my Hot Hatch racer. But Aldon seemed happy with it and they have more experience than me. Or maybe a hose has loosened under revs on the road / Or maybe I've been a burk and fitted the thermostat the wrong way round (can you?). I don't think it's a hose as I checked the engine bay out quickly when I got home and everything seems to be connected. Also topped up the system and it took 500ml. Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyBoy Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 my waterrail doesnt get much over 70 generally. What does hapen though is that the temp rises from startup whilst the coolant in the engine gets warm.. very reduced flow through the hole in the themostat does little in the way of regulating the temp throughout the system. My coolant temp rises to around 100 degrees then the themostat opens and allows a flood through of cold coolant from the rad to be pumped through plummeting the coolant temp to 70. On a long run, if i come into traffic, the temp can often exceed 100 whilst the fan is whirring to bring it down. I loose probably 50ml of coolant max.. but this is only the expansion amount.. not 50ml per run! Are you running a heater bypass? or is the heater outlet plugged? You could fit the thermostat upside down i supose.. you may also be pumping coolant the wrong way?? have you got the correct water pump in? Dont forget that the temp will always rise to past the thermostat temp as the temp guage comes before the thermostat in the direction of coolant flow. I would definately drill the hole in the top of the thermostat if you havent already.. I think this small amount of circulation helps prevent the coolant in the engine getting too hot. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Hmmmmm, I think my thermostat is the 'standard' Escort one and comes in at 84-88 deg (off the top of my head) so maybe I need to pick a lower one. I think Steppenwolf's site may list them - Or I'll do a search in a mo. The fan kicks in on the standard mk3 escort fan switch mounted in the Polo rad. Must be close to 100 deg (on my racetech guage) before coming in I reckon. Mine is an 1800 130PS engine so it should be pumping the correct way. Again I'll double check over the next couple of days. I haven't drilled the thermostat (but I might be in the near future). I have no heater. I have no expansion tank. Any idea's welcome! Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 The water rail has a cap which springs open at high pressure and reveals vent pipe to atmosphere - this dumped water into the engine bay floor / road. I think you have an air lock... My coolant temp rises to around 100 degrees then the themostat opens and allows a flood through of cold coolant from the rad to be pumped through plummeting the coolant temp to 70. Drill some holes in the stat. Thermal shock will kill the head gasket. That's one of the reasons the K series engine eats head gaskets is that the standard thermostat position leads to thermal shock in the way you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyBoy Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I think you have an air lock... ahh yes.. i seem to remember that it took me sereval runs to get the system 'full' it was particularly hard when i was running a heater as the heater was about the same height as the filler cap! I also ended up filling the rad first.. then hosing up and filling the system with the thermostst out or heater outlet off .. as the air has nowhere to go if the stat is in place. Raceline recommend 1 5mm hole diametrically opposite to the 'little ball bearing thingymajig' IIRC I do mean to get around to drilling more... and blanking off part of the rad to allow the radiator coolant to retain a little more heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Hi Blatman, Ok I'll be drilling holes in the stat. Why do I have an air lock? On initial fill up I poured coolant mix into water rail WITHOUT thermostat housing on. Then put housing on and continued filing slowly. Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Hi Blatman, Ok I'll be drilling holes in the stat. Why do I have an air lock? On initial fill up I poured coolant mix into water rail WITHOUT thermostat housing on. Then put housing on and continued filing slowly. Ta Geoff You have an airlock becuase air gets trapped in the engine. On a Mondeo this isn't such a problem, but your engine isn't in the Mondeo so it may be sitting at a different angle, or you may have filled it on a slight slope, or you were just unlucky and trapped a slug of air in there. Either way, airlocks on Westfields, no matter what engine is fitted, is a common problem. And there are plenty of hints and tips around to help you resolve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8ight Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 have seen a few times when air is trapped around the temp sender false readings given. wouldnt go getting worried about head/gaskets yet if i where you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Ok, Hopefully no problems - I'll still do a compression test as that bit of kit gets used very rarely. The hole drilling in the thermostat - is that purposely for airlock relief? or to bypass thermostatic control to slow initial cooling? DOH! IT WILL INCREASE COOLING! Done a search on airlocks and most seem to recommend tilting car up at the rear - but on my car the water rail is the highest point! Or hypodermic needles? Has anybody put an airbleed (as used on Renault 5's) in to their hoses? Is it possible for the DIYer to put these in a hose? Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8ight Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 think you can buy short lengths of plastic tube with a bleed in them quite easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 The hole drilling in the thermostat - is that purposely for airlock relief? or to bypass thermostatic control to slow initial cooling? DOH! IT WILL INCREASE COOLING! A couple or 3 holes in the stat will make very little difference to the time it takes for the engine to reach operating temp, IME. It will help to avoid thermal shock though, which is potentially far more serious. FWIW, my Vx stat has 3 holes in it, and reaches operating temp within a few minutes of driving off. It takes around 7-8 minutes sat on the drive ticking over to reach 80 degrees, although "warming the engine up" in this way is someting I avoid. Of course it takes a little longer to reach operating temp when the ambient temp is low... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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