felters Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Just spotted this in Autoexpress. Presumably it only applies to cars that have full Type approval ABS Rule Threat To Resale Values From next month, all new cars sold in Europe must have ABS as standard. While most models already come with the safety feature, some - such as Fiat's entry-level Panda - do not. And buyers are being warned about ordering a non-ABS car before the legislation is introduced, as resale values are likely to be seriously affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Keene Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 More than likely will only apply to cars with full type approval. If it does, then its about time to... While I'm on the subject, I've never understood car manufacturers that fit airbags as std, but not abs. Surely ABS will go some way to helping prevent the accident, but an airbag might prevent you getting hurt should you have the accident, I know what I'd rather have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 ABS will only help if the driver knows A) When the ABS is active, and B) what it enables him/her to do. IME, the vast majority of folk who get into emergency braking situations bad enough to acitvate the ABS system don't have a clue what's going on, 'cos they panic, and crash anyway. Se7ens will escape this rule under the "Low Volume" rules, as I understand it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Keene Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Hmm, fair comment... I failed to take into account most peoples shocking level of understanding about how their car works and the general driving standard in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Too true. Most ordinary dead heads think ABS means anti crash device... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzer Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I wish the woman in the Escort behind me had yesterday had ABS !!! Queue of trafic ahead dead easy to read the road, start to brake gently escort still gaining on my. I am now doing the looking in mirror looking forward thing to give her as much room as possible as smoke is billowing from her wheel arches. She just missed me, with me velcro'd to the car in front. That said I have driven some ABS cars where I could stop the car faster without the ABS as it came in way too early !!! Bazzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 IME, most tin tops ABS systems simply lengthen the braking distance over what I can accomplish by braking properly. This is certainly true of the ABS system on my last few cars, and on my BMW motorbike, which will still lock a wheel if you're leaning into a corner/turning, so it's of even less benefit to a panic braking born again biker/organ donor.... In a panic situation though, ABS in only good if the person behind the wheel realises that A) he can still steer the car, and B) has somewhere to steer to. Most seem to forget 'A' though... I have a strong suspicion that the hapless Escort driver would simply have ABS'd herself firmly in to your boot, Bazzer...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Sorry guys - I work in the braking system spec business and I am not aware of a single professional test driver who can stop a car any quicker than an ordinary driver with fully utilised ABS The ABS system monitors the wheel speeds 100's of times per second and can change the brake pressure at each wheel 50+ times per second. No human driver can gather info as fast or compensate as quickly. Even Formula 1 drivers/teams choose to fit a system if the rules allow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Seabrook Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Even Formula 1 drivers/teams choose to fit a system if the rules allow. You beet me to that one. If its good enough for MS then it will be good enough for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 ABS in F1 had more to do with preserving tyres (not flat spotting one with a locked wheel) than having the drivers rely on it at every corner... And whilst I wouldn't contradict an industry professional, I did say IME. I haven't experienced the latest, greatest, high end ABS systems in any of my cars, so my experience is limited, but still valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbin Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Other problem I've heard of is when "Joe Bloggs" panic brakes, activates ABS, feels & hears knocking noise that makes him panic more, so releases pedal...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Wouldn't surprise me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzer Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Sorry guys - I work in the braking system spec business and I am not aware of a single professional test driver who can stop a car any quicker than an ordinary driver with fully utilised ABS The ABS system monitors the wheel speeds 100's of times per second and can change the brake pressure at each wheel 50+ times per second. No human driver can gather info as fast or compensate as quickly. Even Formula 1 drivers/teams choose to fit a system if the rules allow. I would beg to differ, but I would add the cars in question I am thinking of are around 15 years old so I don't know if newer systems are better. As to the ABS in formula one analogy, my wifes SEAT Leon Cupra has traction control as did the MS's Ferrari but I bet he could launch the Leon quicker with it switched off !!! I would not want ABS on my Westfield even if it did stop it quicker as it is a track car and I feel it is somthing I want to be in charge of myself. Bazzer edited to add the cars in question were a Renault 21 Turbo and a Rover Tomcat turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Seabrook Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 As to the ABS in formula one analogy, my wifes SEAT Leon Cupra has traction control as did the MS's Ferrari but I bet he could launch the Leon quicker with it switched off !!! Slight difference between traction control and launch control. Also if the same launch control were fitted to your wife’s Leon then the cat would soon be dead if you drove it to use it. Think you don’t understand the principle of F1 to road car traction control. Different principle for different cars. That said I would not want ABS on my Westy. As for ABS on F1 if the teams did not see it as a performance advantage they would not have fitted it. I think that the flat spotting tyres thing is a bit of a non-starter. Think about it if the cars do not stop as quick with ABS then it would be a real disadvantage to fit it just to stop drivers flat spotting tyres. If you watch one driver for a hole season i.e. MS and see how many times the car locks a wheel in a season then count the number of corners they drive around in a season. We are not talking about the odd 1/2 second or to difference they are looking for 100ths or 1000ths of seconds a lap saving. So if ABS lost them 0.02 seconds a corner because of less efficient brakes over a hole 10 corner lap they would be 2/10ths of a second down or 14 seconds over a 70 lap race. Don’t get me wrong I think that a lot of drivers could do with tuition on braking with ABS and some other pointers and I include myself in that statement. Too many people think they are far better drivers than they actually are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Steering a car with locked brakes counts equally for an F1 car too. It'll keep him out of the gravel (assuming theres room) as well as keping his tyres round. Flat spotted tyres create massive vibration on an F1 car, which can lead to further failures, which will put some-one out of a race. Big picture..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.