Blatman Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Who designs all the mechanical components in all industries and analysis and calculates whether they will work, and over what life expectancy-thus designing the component to fulfil its application. A designer, hopefully utilising some sort of CAD system, with stress analysis and material analysis functions, I would hope. The designers I have witnessed in conversation with engineers couldn't fix a lightbulb. They could design one though. The engineers I know couldn't design a *good* car from scratch, but the designer could do it with his eyes closed....... I doubt on graduation day they'll give you a BSc (Eng), and throw in a BSc in Manufacturing/Engineering Design for free. Ergo, engineers aren't designers.........or put another way...... engineers don't design doors, door locks, boots, hatchbacks, bodyshapes, windows, gearboxes, wheels, or *any* part of a car, including engines. Engineers can build 'em, report on them, even send them back for re-designs. They can even advise on re-designs by sending drawings, but they don't start with a blank sheet of paper and a brief. Designers do......... besides, a BSc(Eng) won't do you any good applying for a job as a designer for *anything*. You won't be qualified.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Explain please Blatters.... When the piston is in the middle of it's stroke, there is an angle generated between the rod and piston. The higher the angle, the more movement in the rod, plus all the extra load stresses that high angle generates. It means the rods, big and small ends could all do with being a bit beefier, adding weight. Basically, the nearer to perpendicular the rods stay, the better. A long stroke engine will always have high rod angles, which, along with having a piston that has a long way to travel every stroke, limits it's ability to rev highly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Just to throw in my £0.02 What does an electronic engineer do? Doesn't he 'design' electronic stuff? Andy MSc, BEng(Hons) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I'm not saying engineers *can't* design, I'm just saying that designing is a completely different discipline. If an engineer went for a job as a designer, he wouldn't get it. Likewise, a designer wouldn't get a job as an engineer...... sheesh...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick.Petty Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Batten down the hatches, this thread is gonna blow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 It means the rods, big and small ends could all do with being a bit beefier, adding weight. Basically, the nearer to perpendicular the rods stay, the better. A long stroke engine will always have high rod angles, which, along with having a piston that has a long way to travel every stroke, limits it's ability to rev highly. So the K series already has bad angles - I thought they revved pretty high already in some cars - ie R500. I'll stick with my 77mm stroke, more stroke = greater turning moment or something, perhaps an engineer could give us an equation My 2p: My father in law used to be an 'engineer' for RR & Associates (nuclear reactors on subs). He probably couldn't design an engine or a reactor from scratch but he could tell you where you've gone wrong if you design one. cheers Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 He probably couldn't design an engine or a reactor from scratch but he could tell you where you've gone wrong if you design one. My point exactly... more stroke = greater turning moment or something That's the phrase I was trying to find. Yes, K's rev high, but they have the advantage of light components. However, they are also pretty un-reliable, all things being equal, so perhaps using it beyond it's design parameters is more hazardous than it might otherwise be. Something's got to give, and normally adding strength means adding weight........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oioi Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I am a chemical Engineer, I design plant to perform chemical reactions. I am not a chemical designer, although i have been known to take designer chemicals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Seabrook Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 The K has a bore of 78mm and a stroke of 89mm well under sq. I would hope that a 2000cc motor would increase the bore rather than the stroke. That said I would think that it would have to be a different bottom end as the cooling on a K is marginal at best in a standard rover let alone a modified engine. The Zetec is not ideal but better with a bore of 85mm and a stroke of 88mm better again is the Vx at 86x86 and better again would be the YB at 90.93x76.95 all 2000cc motors. I think the Duratec is even more under sq. than the YB. As has been said the K with a long stroke can be made to rev but they do seem to have a problem or two which the other engines listed dont seem to have. I know of one Zetec 1800cc making over 200 bhp with a stock bottom end except for rod bolts. The K would need a set of rods and pistons to make that sort of power. The K is light though and in such a light car that does count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaman Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 As a designer I think it should be Dayglow PINK. Seriously why don't they just put a decent engine in the bl**** thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Seabrook Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Seriously why don't they just put a decent engine in the bl**** thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Mack Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Right Mr Batman, to be pedantic..... dictionary.com says that "engineering" is "The application of scientific and mathematical principles to practical ends such as the design, manufacture, and operation of efficient and economical structures, machines, processes, and systems. " An "engineer" is "One who is trained or professionally engaged in a branch of engineering" so logic means that an engineer uses "scientific and mathematical principles to practical ends such as the design....." That means that an engineer designs things in my book. Also a "designer" is "One that produces designs". Therefore an engineer IS a designer. Doesn't mean and designer is an engineer though. Also means that the term engineer is very misused. eg domestic heating engineer is NOT an engineer! (maybe a technician but lets not go there) Hope that clears that little problem up Toby (an ex electronic ENGINEER! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttleys V8 Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 I feel as if I should have gone to Uni and learnt something Only asked what people thought of a R600!!!!! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbowestie.co.uk Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I'm not saying engineers *can't* design, I'm just saying that designing is a completely different discipline Gotta agree with Blatters here, the engine development engineer is the guy that develops the spec required to meet the performance/ emmisions targets etc and prototypes the hardware to prove the intended design spec, the designer "generaly" takes the hardware spec generated by the development engineer (after hundereds of hours testing)and produces a manufaturable and packable design based on the findings and suggestions of the development engineer. You will hardly ever see a designer at a test bed developing a engine. *13 years engine development experience* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I'd let Mark Stanton design my house, and specify materials and good practice. I wouldn't let him lay one single brick. I'd want a brickie and a team of builders. I'd let Gordon Murray design a car. I'd never let him near a set of spanners. In fact, he's never in the pit lane, but he's clearly, according to those arguments, the best man for the job........ Another one we'll have to agree to differ on..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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