MR.C Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Pay back April 1st NI contributions, I'm surprised their taking it back this early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 They had no choice. Besides, NI is still waaaaay cheaper than private healthcare. And there's no point in waiting. The NHS needs more funding (different and longer story but for the moment lets say they actually do this time), what would be the benefit in waiting? Or put it this way. What's the worse headline - Increase in NI causes a little belt tightening or lack of funding is actually causing higher mortality than we have seen before? Me, I'm quite happy with the NI increase AS LONG AS it shows real benefits. On 27/01/2022 at 17:23, Steve (sdh2903) said: And I'm not talking about nanobot fearing, 5g tinfoil hat wearers. I'm talking about people who've looked at the data and made a choice We must also assume they understand the data and that they got it from a reliable source. It is patently clear that many did not and do not. Not understanding medical data is fair enough it can be dense and wordy. It seems to me when I look around that good solid data is often misunderstood, then re-interpreted badly and presented at fact on popular platforms by non-medical people. I'm not sure how that can lead to making good choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 35 minutes ago, Blatman said: We must also assume they understand the data and that they got it from a reliable source. It is patently clear that many did not and do not. Not understanding medical data is fair enough it can be dense and wordy. It seems to me when I look around that good solid data is often misunderstood, then re-interpreted badly and presented at fact on popular platforms by non-medical people. I'm not sure how that can lead to making good choices. Exact same could be said for those taking the jab though couldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Well, to quote Jim_l from earlier, those taking the advice and the vaccine are following medical recommendations from all the worlds leading virologists, hospitals, research centres and any number of reliable sources who are all in broad agreement that vaccination is the way forwards and that the vaccines are as safe as any other. No vaccines is perfect, there always risks of side effects and as with any other vaccine the benefit of the vaccine far outweighs the alternative. Those benefits include a return to near normal life and hopefully a thriving economy. I would argue that if no-one took the vaccine the NHS would be overwhelmed, communities devastated, especially communities with an overwhelmingly aging population. It is likely poverty would increase with unemployment and as we all know, children and the elderly are disproportionately affected by both. I'm betting this is issue is a far greater risk than those posed by side effects from the vaccines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 That wasn't my point. Your point about non-take up was that people are not reading the information or not obtaining their information from a reliable source. My question is how many have taken the vaccine without reading any data whatsoever? Just on the say so of boris and his merry men? I would hazard a guess it's fairly high. Even last week I've been told it was my fault I caught covid as I hadn't taken the booster. They genuinely did believe that a booster would stop you catching and transmitting. Misinformation is everywhere from whichever viewpoint you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Steve (sdh2903) said: That wasn't my point. Your point about non-take up was that people are not reading the information or not obtaining their information from a reliable source. My question is how many have taken the vaccine without reading any data whatsoever? Just on the say so of boris and his merry men? I would hazard a guess it's fairly high. All my family have had all the vacines offered. However it wouldn't be true to say that we have done so on the say so of Boris Johnson!! I'm not a doctor any more than he is, so I have relied on the advice of the experts and professionals. The members of SAGE, my relatives who are doctors, and the doctors at my GPs practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Steve (sdh2903) said: My question is how many have taken the vaccine without reading any data whatsoever? Just on the say so of boris and his merry men? I would hazard a guess it's fairly high. So Boris and his merry men The Chief Medical Officer and Patrick Vallance, the Government Chief Scientific Adviser are not to be trusted BECAUSE they stand next to Boris? It has nothing to do with years of experience and a high professional standards. They work for HMG so MUST be corrupt? And you got there just as I was typing this. So it's misinformation is everywhere, except when it isn't?.. NO-ONE has ever said vaccines are 100% effective with Zero side effects, and NO-ONE has ever said having the vaccine 100% prevents infection or transmission. Quite the opposite, as long as what is being read isn't on Facebook or Twitter or Youtube or Spotify... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 At what point did I say any of that? As far as this thread goes I'm out. It's just rearing it's ugly head of only having one possible viewpoint and everything else is rubbish. Just like the mainstream media. Sadly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 I hope you do not bow out Steve, I feel that the majority of contributions people have made have come from a position that is sincere and it is key to discuss openly all views. As far as I can recall no one in authority has ever said the vaccine will stop you getting the virus, it is exactly the same as the flu vaccine it helps relive the symptoms and the key was to stop the NHS being overwhelmed. Remember many of those now berating Boris, were doing the same for not locking down the country sooner. This was played out so often with the anti vaxers saying if you are vaccinated how does my choice affect you the transmission won't harm you as you are immune, clearly not true. This time too many have been taken in by "experts who have made social media their home" who speculate but as they are some way from the main research banks so do not have a full picture. When someone says I am not taking the vaccine as I have done my own research, how could they. What they mean is they have found others who's views align with theirs on the internet.. We are not equipped to make such a decision but that is their choice. Even in the NHS we have people who have refused to see the truth, that the risk is minimal of harm from the vaccine yet proven to help with reducing severity and hospitalisation this is a bigger worry to me. Would these people decide that they know better over cancer drugs, fertility drugs pain relief than the experts who are qualified, dedicated to giving the best advice. We have never questions drugs like this before and only the actions of Dr Wakefield who published a paper on autism led to some women taking his flawed research as gospel and refused to inoculate their kids. As time goes on we will learn more and there has to be a proper scientific evaluation off all actions taken. Cancelling operations was right when there were people needing the ITU bed but for the many who died as a result of that action, they paid a high price. As I have said all along I am biased and have faith in the big Pharma companies that many abhor to deliver the best they can in what was an unprecedented world wide event. We now need to move on and as a tax payer for the last 47 years I know and am willing to pay a extra to get more money for social care and other NHS spending. For average earners it is 69p a day for the new NI charge which is coming in hardly the end of the earth. We need the economy working, we need the criminals who have ripped off the help schemes brought to book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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