Covid Vaccine Poll

[Blatman]

The NHS is a no win for every government. Both major parties accuse the other of having some sort of catastrophic plan for it and to be honest I'm really and truly bored with the left/right infighting. I mean who do they honestly think they are trying to impress?

From the perspective of the NHS, and many other institutions like education, law enforcement, ambulance, fire services etc etc, they will never lose any points or credibility by saying they are underfunded, and mostly the public buy that argument because criticising these services outside of parliament is akin to treason. So the government can never claim a satisfactory solution to criticisms. All they can do is not screw it up enough to try to win the next election whilst at the same time trying to make responsible budgetary decisions, which is what it usually comes down to. Cost.

That said, I thnk any pay offer to public servants that is below the rate of inflation should be illegal. These service personnel should have wages that keep pace with the cost of living. No if's, no buts. And if I was in charge I'd add to this. Anyone who retires as front-line staff (nurse, firefighter, paramedic, teacher [not heads] police constable etc) would never pay tax or NI ever again UNLESS their post retirement income was more than double their salary at retirement.

[Captain Colonial]

7 hours ago, Blatman said:

Both major parties accuse the other of having some sort of catastrophic plan for it

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.” - H L Mencken, 1918

 

7 hours ago, Blatman said:

That said, I thnk any pay offer to public servants that is below the rate of inflation should be illegal. These service personnel should have wages that keep pace with the cost of living. No if's, no buts.

It would certainly be an incentive for government to keep inflation under control.

 

[MR.C]

H.L Mencken knew his stuff.

"Keep the people in fear then lead them to safety"

[jeff oakley]

My wife is a finance director in the NHS and when we see "austerity" being thrown around it is not true in regards to the NHS. Spending has and continues to rise across all areas. You can always look at charts to prove a point depending upon what you want to say but in cold hard cash investment continues to rise year on year.

 

The quoted 1% is not a simple one to equate either as that does not include awards already made for various reasons. It only really applies to medical and other staff at the top of their grade who are not underpaid in truth but one could ague they deserve more. 

 

When you then get to the nuts and bolts that due to the utterly bizarre way they try to equate what a catering staff, or an accountant do in bandings with medical staff it gets even worse as this 1% is to everyone regardless of frontline or not.

 

This is why Sunek is now looking at could there be a one off bonus paid instead so medics are rewarded appropriately.

 

We all have feelings on the NHS and my support for them is unswerving, but the waste and bad management is biblical. Empires have been made with every reorganisation which does not help put care where it is needed.

My wife is working at home and when I hear some of her meetings with others, she has to keep reminding them that at the heart of the NHS is the patient but they so often forget that with targets to meet, boxes to tick and the latest buzz process to adhere to.

 

As I have said before my Daughter is an anaesthetic Dr so we see it from all angles

 

We have seen the true worth of the NHS and the staff from catering, porters up and yet politically all parties treat it shamefully, not in funding, but by being politically driven at all times first and foremost.

 

But back to the thread, Blatman is right no other county of the size and complexity of the UK could have done better and regardless of mistakes made we are now going to come out of this better. The EU have suffered because of the added complexities being a political alliance and has demonstrated that the big countries wanted their vaccines first and that has not worked.

 

We need the whole world vaccinated before we can get back to how we lived before and once again the UK is leading there with helping to fund and distribute

 

 

[Richard (OldStager)]

1 hour ago, jeff oakley said:

My wife is a finance director in the NHS and when we see "austerity" being thrown around it is not true in regards to the NHS. Spending has and continues to rise across all areas. You can always look at charts to prove a point depending upon what you want to say but in cold hard cash investment continues to rise year on year.

 

The quoted 1% is not a simple one to equate either as that does not include awards already made for various reasons. It only really applies to medical and other staff at the top of their grade who are not underpaid in truth but one could ague they deserve more. 

 

When you then get to the nuts and bolts that due to the utterly bizarre way they try to equate what a catering staff, or an accountant do in bandings with medical staff it gets even worse as this 1% is to everyone regardless of frontline or not.

 

This is why Sunek is now looking at could there be a one off bonus paid instead so medics are rewarded appropriately.

 

We all have feelings on the NHS and my support for them is unswerving, but the waste and bad management is biblical. Empires have been made with every reorganisation which does not help put care where it is needed.

My wife is working at home and when I hear some of her meetings with others, she has to keep reminding them that at the heart of the NHS is the patient but they so often forget that with targets to meet, boxes to tick and the latest buzz process to adhere to.

 

As I have said before my Daughter is an anaesthetic Dr so we see it from all angles

 

We have seen the true worth of the NHS and the staff from catering, porters up and yet politically all parties treat it shamefully, not in funding, but by being politically driven at all times first and foremost.

 

But back to the thread, Blatman is right no other county of the size and complexity of the UK could have done better and regardless of mistakes made we are now going to come out of this better. The EU have suffered because of the added complexities being a political alliance and has demonstrated that the big countries wanted their vaccines first and that has not worked.

 

We need the whole world vaccinated before we can get back to how we lived before and once again the UK is leading there with helping to fund and distribute

 

 

Thanks for posting that Jeff, always good to get first hand information. The problem as far as I saw it was during my years as a service user being treated for mental health issues, the lack of staff was always the reason they gave for the very long waiting times and postponed meetings and one staff member said all the long standing staff had left as they don't get paid enough and went into the private sector instead. If fact, the councilor I was given actually once worked at the same  building for the NHS, left, then re-joined having joined a private organisation to be sub contracted back to the NHS. My treatment could have been reduced by a good 6 months had they had the funds to pay folks.

That was a while back, admittedly and I have no experience of the current situation.

But I do congratulate the NHS for how they are coping with what is after all  a once in a century occurrence.

[Arm]

My wife is in the NHS and would love to be paid more. The question is how much money should the NHS overall receive. The answer cant just be more any more than it can be less. The last time I looked it was a huge amount each day. I'm retired so would be glad for those still working to pay 10 or 20 percent more in tax. Would it be enough, would it reach the deserving cases. I somehow doubt it. How much money should the NHS get and are we hitting that target.

[Blatman]

6 minutes ago, Arm said:

How much money should the NHS get and are we hitting that target.

 

I think the Government could say to the NHS "How much this year" and whatever the number the NHS give, there would still be complaints of underfunding. Bashing politicians with NHS funding criticism to grab votes and headlines is just wrong and it's time it stopped. Over the past 40 years since I started voting, NONE of the predicted disasters have befallen the NHS and it isn't privatised. It's time for a more measured, balanced discussion from ALL sides.

[jeff oakley]

Number of issues there OldStager. Mental services are a problem as the staff are in short supply. 

 

When Charlotte was doing her rotations after qualifying mental health was the one she hated the most but was one of the fastest to get to Consultant level. The pay for Drs is all dependent upon the role and mental health is one of the lowest banded and it isn't a hero status one. You never see a TV program showing Dr's deal with the problem unlike A&E and surgery.

 

As Charlotte said it was hard to listen for hours to people with problems, some of which were lifestyle/status/ jealousy related where they were unhappy with life, others where it was a genuine mental problem, not just feeling low. That is not to underplay either but some were really ill people who could not function.

 

Even though she is tough and can deal with death on a daily basis she was not cut out for that and to be honest she felt the staff there were at risk of issues themselves. So it is easy to see why they are not over run with staff.

 

one of your other points, some areas have outsourced their mental service provision to the likes of Virgin health, some will have left and rejoined if they were better off other Tupied across, but delays will always happen and with a different approach time could be saved.

 

My brother, who sadly died last year, had a lot of time in French hospitals and they were fantastic. You did not come home until you could be considered fully fit. If you had a knee operation there, you then went to a convalescent home where you got daily Physio. In the UK as soon as you can bend your knee you are sent home with exercises to do alone. Happened to my FiL who did not do them right, or at all, a year later had to have it done again as scar tissue formed stopping it working. Had he been forced to do excise it would have cost a lot less overall with a better outcome but we just hope for the best.

 

There will never be enough money in the NHS as drugs become available and new treatments demanded. We need a grown up conversation on many things, transgender treatment, fertility the list goes on and sometimes what we can do should we?

 

I still think what we have is the best if not one of the best systems in the world.

 

 

[Arm]

For once I agree with you Blatters 

 

As long as I remember its been a political hot topic. Never solved and doubt it will be.

 

I had misfortune of being in a hospital in the US.  Now that's expensive. 

[Richard (OldStager)]

13 minutes ago, jeff oakley said:

Number of issues there OldStager. Mental services are a problem as the staff are in short supply. 

 

When Charlotte was doing her rotations after qualifying mental health was the one she hated the most but was one of the fastest to get to Consultant level. The pay for Drs is all dependent upon the role and mental health is one of the lowest banded and it isn't a hero status one. You never see a TV program showing Dr's deal with the problem unlike A&E and surgery.

 

As Charlotte said it was hard to listen for hours to people with problems, some of which were lifestyle/status/ jealousy related where they were unhappy with life, others where it was a genuine mental problem, not just feeling low. That is not to underplay either but some were really ill people who could not function.

 

Even though she is tough and can deal with death on a daily basis she was not cut out for that and to be honest she felt the staff there were at risk of issues themselves. So it is easy to see why they are not over run with staff.

 

one of your other points, some areas have outsourced their mental service provision to the likes of Virgin health, some will have left and rejoined if they were better off other Tupied across, but delays will always happen and with a different approach time could be saved.

 

My brother, who sadly died last year, had a lot of time in French hospitals and they were fantastic. You did not come home until you could be considered fully fit. If you had a knee operation there, you then went to a convalescent home where you got daily Physio. In the UK as soon as you can bend your knee you are sent home with exercises to do alone. Happened to my FiL who did not do them right, or at all, a year later had to have it done again as scar tissue formed stopping it working. Had he been forced to do excise it would have cost a lot less overall with a better outcome but we just hope for the best.

 

There will never be enough money in the NHS as drugs become available and new treatments demanded. We need a grown up conversation on many things, transgender treatment, fertility the list goes on and sometimes what we can do should we?

 

I still think what we have is the best if not one of the best systems in the world.

 

 

Again thanks for that, I can only speak from a users point of view.

When it comes to Charlotte's expereince in Mental services, she is spot on with her view of it, I actually did a very brief spell as a advocate working voluntary for a local Advocacy service, whom had helped me so so much, to pay them back a little bit I offered my spare time doing the same for other service users - I lasted about 2 months !, the constant stories of other folks problems and issues just triggered me back into the old days of depression.  It takes a VERY special person to be in most aspects of Mental health and I commend all that work in it.

Regarding French systems, yes I have an uncle living over there, he had to have a pace maker fitted last year and he said they were stunning with the aftercare, so nice to hear other stories of this and sorry for your brother as well.

 

[CraigHew]

Ok just a "heads-up" to anyone in the 50 to 55 age group.

 

The NHS vaccination booking system says 55 plus at the moment. Ive tried each day to enter my wifes nhs number and dob and as expected it says she isn't elligible yet. 

 

However, 10 minutes ago it gave her a slot, tommorrow....!

 

Im guessing the booking algorithm is now seeing lots of free slots available as the 55+ cohort get jabbed, and is keen to fill them.

 

Im also convinced it will vary greatly by region and even vaccination centre, but its worth a look if you're keen to get jabbed.

Edit: I'm not condoning "queue jumping" here but just following advice from a close mate who runs a vaccination centre.....

👍

[Richard (OldStager)]

I'll give the booking site another go then, see if there is a nearer place to go. Cheers.

[Kingster]

Just had my Astra Zeneca jab - zero hesitation, bl**** Eurocrats are idiots...

[Andy - a15cro]

I never got my promised call on Friday, they either forgot about me or didn't have any spare shots at the end of the shift, however my missus is in the Ops Manager roll on Friday and Saturdays clinics so theres got to be one for me then! Added bonus, she's doing 2 x 12hr shifts, ahhhhh piece and quiet 🤭

[Richard (OldStager)]

The Doctor I watch on youtube just did a good video on the FACTS of this blood clot issue, all with evidence. Europe needs to watch some.