Super Puma crash investigation Norway

[Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO]

Having been transported in these too many times and other copters, I'd be interested in @Si.Dalziel , @Steve (sdh2903) @Lawry Playle & another other opinions on the report (Or Airbus) advert.

 

 

 

It's well presented and a good explanation.

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve (sdh2903)]

Was this the metal fatigue in the gearbox one? Do you have a link to the report? 

 

Whirlie gigs are well outside of my aircraft comfort zone. 

[Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO]

4 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

Was this the metal fatigue in the gearbox one? Do you have a link to the report? 

 

Whirlie gigs are well outside of my aircraft comfort zone. 

Oops. Link now added. As it was done in Norway I doubt it will be in English, unlike the investigation into the sad accident with Colin McRae- https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fatal-helicopter-crash-rally-driver-had-no-pilot-s-licence-1608213.html I can't find the AAIB report now, but did read it after publication.

 

[Si.Dalziel]

All I knew was never to get into a puma.

[Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO]

1 minute ago, Si.Dalziel said:

All I knew was never to get into a puma.

Wise!

 

It was never good when you stopped on a platform that wasn't your final destination and the pilot would walk round the craft with funny looks on his face, whilst others got on/off etc.. If he got back in and flew onwards, you felt a little better 🤦‍♂️

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Indeed, given my experience of French cars, a French* helicopter never seemed a great idea!

[corsechris]

As an interested but unqualified observer of such things...apart from the PR aspect of it, it does seem they have owned the problem to an extent and done something to deal with it. Boeing could learn from this attitude I feel....

[Nemesis]

I did A few hops whilst serving in the Royal Navy and more recently some off shore trips to the jack up drilling rigs.

 

My humble opinion is that the big difference in the types of transport had little to do with who made it or maintained it, more to do with costs and profit.

 

Flying with the RN I was always impressed how a fault could be so readily found if we happened to be near a nice hotel where we could wait in until the fault was fixed...... and when the team arrived to fix it they turned it with a spare one of everything. 

 

Flying to of from the rigs was a completely different kettle of fish I've been on 2 flights out of Caister that got into a hover before the pitch and go only to see the ground get closer once again followed by a swift trip back to the suit room where we got to watch some frantic fixing going on before getting back on the same bird, the frantic fixing had none of the shiny bits that the RN had.

 

I've no problem with the fix and go but who the chuff declared the bird ready at the start of the day??

 

For self preservation I always made sure I was the last on on the aircraft, that way you get to sit closest to the door..... the biggest opening ! 

 

Nem.....   

[Steve (sdh2903)]

22 hours ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said:

Indeed, given my experience of French cars, a French* helicopter never seemed a great idea!

 

They don't seem to do too bad as the biggest producer of commercial aircraft, although you could argue they are more European than French. 

 

1 hour ago, Nemesis said:

the frantic fixing had none of the shiny bits that the RN had.

 

I've no problem with the fix and go but who the chuff declared the bird ready at the start of the day??

 

There's a very big difference between military and commercial. Yes the principals are the same however unless in a front line operation there's very little in the way of time pressure as its not being run as a business. They also as you say have every spare part and kit available to hand as they can take their time to get there with it. 

 

For instance we had a military transport aircraft that needed an engine change, we were assisting with providing basics, air, power etc from the hangar. The aircraft sat for 5 days before another aircraft brought an engine, a squadron of guys, enough kit to rebuild the aircraft "just in case" and then they pottered away at it for another 4 or 5 days. 

 

VS the commercial version, a wide body aircraft swallows a large bird on departure downroute. Team of guys is assembled in hours, spare engine located and change kit loaded and cargo aircraft booked. Aircraft is back In revenue service within 4 days. 

 

With regards to who signed the bird ready, that's easy, the suitably licensed and type rated engineer. I'm not overly familiar with the daily/48hr check requirements on helos but on fixed wing it certainly doesn't involve running engines or test flying. So any snags that occur on engine start/taxi/hover wouldn't have been ignored, they just wouldn't have presented themselves during routine maintenance and preflight checks. 

[Chris Broster - Bristol & Bath AO]

11 minutes ago, Si.Dalziel said:

All I knew was never to get into a puma.

I did the Service Inquiry into the Puma Mk 2 that crashed in Kabul on 11 Oct 2015 after it collided with the surveillance balloon cable. Lots of lessons identified there!  

 

On the other hand the Lynx was a cry baby, if she wasn't crying oil then you had a problem!  And the flying drumstick that was the Gazelle, probably the most '7ish' of all the Helos I worked on, simple but worked!  Now the Apache wow, what a machine Awesome.

 

[Si.Dalziel]

2 hours ago, Chris Broster - Bristol & Bath AO said:

I did the Service Inquiry into the Puma Mk 2 that crashed in Kabul on 11 Oct 2015 after it collided with the surveillance balloon cable. Lots of lessons identified there!  

 

On the other hand the Lynx was a cry baby, if she wasn't crying oil then you had a problem!  And the flying drumstick that was the Gazelle, probably the most '7ish' of all the Helos I worked on, simple but worked!  Now the Apache wow, what a machine Awesome.

 

I met some of the guys that were working on the Apache when it came into service during one of my free holidays around the globe. For every one hour of flying it required something ridiculous like 15hours maintenance. But agreed what a machine!!!

 

Still not as good as the greatest helicopter in the world.

 

Loved my time on these!

 

[Chris Broster - Bristol & Bath AO]

1 hour ago, Si.Dalziel said:

Still not as good as the greatest helicopter in the world.

I think you are underestimating the MMH/FH ratio with the Apache!

 

Yes agree the Chinook is superb and definitely one to trust.

[Nemesis]

On 19/01/2021 at 11:55, Si.Dalziel said:

I met some of the guys that were working on the Apache when it came into service during one of my free holidays around the globe. For every one hour of flying it required something ridiculous like 15hours maintenance. But agreed what a machine!!!

 

Still not as good as the greatest helicopter in the world.

 

Loved my time on these!

 

I had one and only one unholy terrifying flight in one of those...... correct me if I'm wrong but they have an 80 foot rotor diameter?? The nutter flying ours thought he was driving a lawnmower around a forest.... I think he got disciplined for his antics but that did nothing for my undies on the day..... now am I the only nutter that would want to be sat on that cannon for the worlds finest white knuckle ride?  

[Chris Broster - Bristol & Bath AO]

2 hours ago, Nemesis said:

now am I the only nutter that would want to be sat on that cannon for the worlds finest white knuckle ride? 

Ha ha nice one Nemisis, I'd be right there with you!

 

Have a look at the 70s/80s Russian Air Mobile 'Tank/APC' Para drops where they dropped the vehicles WITH crew inside! Not particularly successful as it was like putting eggs inside a tin can and dropping it on the floor...

[Nemesis]

53 minutes ago, Chris Broster - Bristol & Bath AO said:

Ha ha nice one Nemisis, I'd be right there with you!

 

Have a look at the 70s/80s Russian Air Mobile 'Tank/APC' Para drops where they dropped the vehicles WITH crew inside! Not particularly successful as it was like putting eggs inside a tin can and dropping it on the floor...

Crazy Crazy Russians...... That's so funny it's obscene.....as a Royal Navy Medic you'd often be addressed as Doc...... I just got my minds eye screaming at me.... "DokSki.... I got the Mother of all headaches"