nice_guy Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 12 hours ago, Blatman said: Not sure cloud computing is a good example. Well, given what you said, I thonk it is. Very. It faced the same challenges, and not everyone goes for this. And bond (between the driver and his machine) is an obstacle. It's not a compelling example, but rather accurate I believe. Some people buy blurays and compact discs, some use spotify or netflix (for the millenial in the street) I think it is more relevant (in my opinion, it's very personal) for a tesla. The thing is great, but very very very very very expensive, and you don't really own the car (in the sense it see it). Software is not something you control (a recent mishap involving carplay and a german legacy manufacturer springs to mind) and, for example, you cannot buy spares for a tesla. I'd love to use a model S 2% of the time, I'd hate to own (and park, the sheer size of the thing) it for the 98 other percent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 21 hours ago, SootySport said: EV batteries are recycled, not just the lithium, the whole package is 85% recyclable and the residual charge in the batteries is used to power the process. As a recently retired recycler, not aware of this. Do you know who is doing it and where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SootySport Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Stuart said: As a recently retired recycler, not aware of this. Do you know who is doing it and where? In Germany. Problem is they don’t have enough batteries to recycle😀EV batteries are lasting too long 10years+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nice_guy Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 22 hours ago, SootySport said: EV batteries are recycled, not just the lithium, the whole package is 85% recyclable and the residual charge in the batteries is used to power the process. As it is the case with a lot of things, a lot more things are produced as recyclable than recycled (metal is a notable exception), but I guess this will need a bit of time. My source were https://hackaday.com/2018/07/16/getting-the-lead-out-of-lithium-battery-recycling/ https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-lithium-ion-battery-recycling-20180316-story.html (18 month old, I know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SootySport Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 29 minutes ago, nice_guy said: As it is the case with a lot of things, a lot more things are produced as recyclable than recycled (metal is a notable exception), but I guess this will need a bit of time. My source were https://hackaday.com/2018/07/16/getting-the-lead-out-of-lithium-battery-recycling/ https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-lithium-ion-battery-recycling-20180316-story.html (18 month old, I know) That was roughly the same process in its infancy and now a reality as in my you tube link. Just goes to show the naysayers are not keeping up with developments. As for range, Tesla are to start production on a 1000km. battery range but the naysayers will say that's not enough ad infinittum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nice_guy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, SootySport said: That was roughly the same process in its infancy and now a reality as in my you tube link. I would say it's not a reality yet : recycling is a chain, lithium based batteries are not yet managed (as in collected) on a large scale, as steel is. It'll get there over time, provided there is an economic point (lithium price is quite an incentive, gazillion form factor cell is not). Like a mill, it needs a bit of flow to get started. One doesn't recycle steel just because you can melt it, steel is recycled because it is collected. The best attempt to me is giving batteries a second life as powerwalls (Tesla and Renault do this, maybe others do), that may buy a decade, giving time for a chain to happen. It's a relatively new technology (as in steam or internal combustion engine) at that scale, no one can expect it to get up to metallurgic levels in a decade. 16 minutes ago, SootySport said: As for range, Tesla are to start production on a 1000km. battery range but the naysayers will say that's not enough ad infinittum. Obviously : it's a very tribal (stealing Chris Harris words) "discussion" at the time being. Early adopters that shelled out a significant amount of cash won't bulge that electric mobility is the solution to everything, because it works for them, and diesel lovers will keep on hammering that if you cannot get to Nice in one go it's utterly useless. I won't consider an EV because you'd need the kind of tranquilizer dart required to calm an elephant to have me just take a look at the current prices. (several members of the electric clergy attempted to convert me thanks to many a spreadsheet, but so far all exorcism attempt has failed : it would take nearly 7 years to break even). So for me a 1000km range tesla is way too much... money. Fortunately, it'll settle once you'll be able to use a car without needing a garage and a three phase charger at home (i.e. infrastructure available on public space) and personal electric mobility will be affordable other than thanks to an electric scooter. We'll get ther over time, I hope to live to see the day where an early model S will become the beige volvo: an affordable, dependable and slightly obsolete family car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 13 hours ago, SootySport said: In Germany. Problem is they don’t have enough batteries to recycle😀EV batteries are lasting too long 10years+ Interesting, but that's a tiny pilot plant that sounds like it still has many separation processes to resolve. In my experience it will never fly with all that manual dismantling either - both practically and economically. c. 2m cars reach end of life in UK alone each year and, as a comparison, the 30-odd UK shredders that handle them are each the size of a house. Awful long way to go yet methinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHew Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 Well if you're a French 14 year old with 6,000 euros you can have one of these. It mentions drivers that have lost their licences can legally drive these too...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsechris Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Easy to see where the styling came from.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nice_guy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, corsechris said: Easy to see where the styling came from.... Referring to the original Citroen ami would probably have been more controversial... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SootySport Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 5 hours ago, nice_guy said: Referring to the original Citroen ami would probably have been more controversial... That reminds me of my Ford Anglia, light blue with a white roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsechris Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 An incredibly depressed and somewhat melted Anglia maybe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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