DonPeffers Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health/patients-die-edinburghs-western-general-22821234 "Patients die at Edinburgh’s Western General Hospital as Covid outbreak hits cancer ward". Sadly 4 cancer patients have died and six more have covid and tracing source continues. I only recently became aware that anyone testing positive for covid within 7 days of hospital admission now counts as a new covid case. What if they caught it in hospital? How would closing a licensed cafe help? Are the new covid case numbers distorted by a large number of hospital acquired infections? More research needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPeffers Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 Just seen 09 oct 2020 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/09/government-urged-pause-new-restrictions-cases-covid-caught-hospital/ "Government urged to 'pause' new restrictions as cases of Covid caught in hospital soar Figures reveal that significant proportion of escalating hospital case total down to poor Covid security within trusts". "Imposing more new coronavirus restrictions would be "too hasty", scientists have said after figures revealed that up to a quarter of patients currently in hospital with Covid-19 caught the virus after being admitted". Worrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPeffers Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 Some interesting articles. covid test accuracy---10 aug 2020 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/which-test-is-best-for-covid-19-2020081020734 01 oct 2020 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/three-brit-friends-trapped-italy-22777198 PCR test problem says positive 7 times since 17 aug. 2020 so 3 lads stuck in Italy. Not sure if Italy use same Roche supplied PCR we do, but is likely. Seems parts of dead covid virus stuck in throat activate positive PCR result even though individual not infectious now. https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/ Scottish numbers: 9 October 2020 1,246 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 16.2%* of newly tested individuals 6 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive 33 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 397 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19. 397 covid cases in Scotland's hospitals equates to 72 cases per million citizens or 0.007% of population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 I think there is a form of arrogance to suggest we can control the virus, we can mitigate at best that is all. The big problem is no one knows where the virus is caught. Many claim they have caught it after being admitted to hospital but more likely they had it before admission but only found out as they were in hospital. It is the same with care homes,. Blame was given to hospitals discharging people who had not been tested, those who had no symptoms but needed nursing home care not medical intervention. Yet these were all checked before discharge and when they developed it of course the hospital got blamed, yet I still see care workers getting off a bus in their uniforms now going into a care home or worse into multiple homes when visiting those in need. Young people want to party and unless we want a police state where we lock everything down and enforce like other less liberal countries they will no matter what we say. Universities could have done teaching on line, yet they have carried on as they need the cash, £9k to be locked in a dorm and taught on line doesn't seem good value somehow. In France my nephew has had to sign a contract saying he will only be with his immediate family to continue working, this is Mcdonalds and they do not see it as an issue imagine that here? In my daughters hospital they have just three empty ITU beds, but only a handful of Covid cases, the rest are the beginning of the normal winter cold and flu affecting vulnerable people. We need the vaccine and even then we will still have to keep having one year after year as the virus will, like flu, change. What we also need is a program of education to encourage take up of the vaccine, I would make it mandatory for all but others would say no to that. I am carrying on, I stay 3 nights a week in a hotel chain, eat out but wash, sanitize where I sit as I trust myself better than a minimum wage person to do a proper job, so far I have been fine, we all need to act with caution but normality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPeffers Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 Regarding 'seeding' covid into care homes..... 29 jul 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53574265 "Coronavirus: Sending untested patients to care homes 'reckless' - MPs". "The decision to allow hospital patients in England to be discharged to care homes without Covid-19 tests at the start of the pandemic has been described as "reckless" by MPs. The committee said around 25,000 patients were discharged into care homes in England between mid-March and mid-April to free up hospital beds. After initially saying a negative result was not required before discharging patients, the government later said on 15 April all patients would be tested. In a highly critical report, the cross-party committee said the initial decision to allow untested patients into care homes was an "appalling error". In addition carers moving between homes created further risk of transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 5 hours ago, DonPeffers said: "Imposing more new coronavirus restrictions would be "too hasty", scientists have said after figures revealed that up to a quarter of patients currently in hospital with Covid-19 caught the virus after being admitted". So 75% caught outside hospital. Sounds like greater restrictions should still be considered to me. 4 hours ago, jeff oakley said: We need the vaccine and even then we will still have to keep having one year after year as the virus will, like flu, change. Might change to be less infectious/lethal though, Changes in the virus don't have to be "bad" 4 hours ago, jeff oakley said: I would make it mandatory for all but others would say no to that. I'm sure the BCG was mandatory back in the day. Why not Covid? Yes the anti-vaxxers and anti authority idiots will carp on about state control and that's fine. "Vaccine passports" have been dismissed by the government but if we are going to have to live with this for a long time then businesses will start insisting their employees are vaccinated as part of their contracts, especially where employees are required to got to many sites, irrespective of where they are. And before there is outcry, I would point out that many many BT/Openreach employees are required to have vaccinations for all sorts of nasties so they can go into the ductwork and make repairs to communication lines. There's currently no law against employers requiring employees to have up to date vaccinations and I'm betting this is going to be a thing if vaccination has to be repeated yearly bi-annually or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Doctors have to have certain vaccinations - cannot remember which - Hep-C IIRC and maybe others. BCG was not compulsory when I was in line for it. My parents opted put of that (only) because there was a case or two of live vaccine being 'too live' and TB being caused. I may be even older than you Blatters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Man On The Clapham Omnibus said: I may be even older than you Blatters... Not by much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man On The Clapham Omnibus Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 We are the wise elders then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Well, elders at any rate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPeffers Posted October 11, 2020 Author Share Posted October 11, 2020 10 oct 2020 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-locking-down-north-22825929 "Britain heading for new national lockdown in two weeks, warns Independent SAGE expert. The UK infection rate keeps rising, with millions more set to join the 10 million locked down. Northern leaders claimed people wouldn’t obey new measures in lockdown areas as rates were already falling. Young and elderly exposed as biggest victims of coronavirus mental health 'time bomb'. In July the 287,000 people who live in Bolton, Lancs were hit with a local lockdown when the rate was just 26.79 per 100,000. Nottingham is now the worst Covid hotspot at 760.6 per 100,000 – yet no extra restrictions have been imposed. Locked down by London… BOLTON MPs: One labour MP and two Tories 26.78 cases per 100k at shutdown CALDERDALE MPs: One Labour MP and one Tory 35.94 cases per 100k at shutdown HYDNBURN, LANCS MP: Sara Britcliffe (Tory) 26.61 cases per 100k at shutdown BURNLEY MP: Anthony Higginbotham (Tory 46.11 cases per 100k at shutdown BURY MPS: Two Tories 30.37 cases per 100k at shutdown. Left to use their ‘common sense’ HILLINGDON MP: Boris Johnson 80.82 cases per 100,000 now RICHMOND,YORKS MP: Rishi Sunak 74 cases per 100,000 now SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE MP: Gavin Williamson 91.61 cases per 100,000 now NEWARK & SHERWOOD MP: Robert Jenrick 182.16 cases per 100,000 now". Any consistency in lockdown decision making? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_l Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Boris Johnson is locking down the north, poor us, being victimised... "There is no consistency..." vs “The government needs to leave it up to local authorities ...what’s best for the individual areas" "Prof Peter Horby said the UK was at a "precarious point" with Covid-19 cases, with the number of people admitted to hospital rising. this comes after England's deputy chief medical officer yesterday warned the country was at a "tipping point"" vs "Government urged to 'pause' new restrictions as cases of Covid caught in hospital soar.." Damned of you do, damned if you don't , comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 I agree. "The north" isn't being victimised. And the spread is not and CANNOT be laid at the governments feet. People are not obeying the rules. Cue the cry of "they're too complicated". Balderdash. There are DOZENS of resources where rules that apply to people in their own areas are available. Too many people think the rules don't apply to them and are using the "too complicated" nonsense to excuse themselves from the obvious and demonstrable effects of them being dumb. Over and above that the message has been crystal clear, wear a mask, try to stay 2 metres away from other people and wash/sanitise hands. Getting into semantics about whether it was "arrogant" to say we can control the virus is not helpful and we are again witnessing a mass of opposition for the sake of it, where politicians and leaders are saying "the government is doing bad things" because it's easy, cheap points scoring. And it's getting on my wick. A lot... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neptune Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Very Well put Sir.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan France Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 5 hours ago, DonPeffers said: cases per 100k at shutdown "compared to" cases per 100,000 now Any consistency in lockdown decision making? Not sure your comparison is consistent, it's not a political virus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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