2020 Speed Series regulations - draft copy

[Paul Aspden]

On 04/11/2019 at 21:23, graham frankland said:

Stu

If you make a list of the 30 + SS entrants we have lost over the last 2 years and put a reason code next to each namber I don't think there will be as many as you perceive would be down to MSA interference and new rules!

 

Glutey

 

Well I count as one for sure!

[graham frankland]

On 06/11/2019 at 10:34, AdamR said:

I don't see why a 'backward' step is a bad thing. It's cheaper (cheaper tyres, and you can use them in the wet as well as the dry so you only need one set), you learn to drive better and it's more fun sliding about. Perhaps this mentality is partly why there are / were low entries in A and B in previous seasons? Those with 'lower spec' cars are seen as 'lesser competitors'? I certainly felt that way while driving in Class A. Having a larger number of 'basic spec' cars entering would be in itself I feel be a reasonable carrot for new sprinters, more people to play with. I hope the new structure will do this by having more entries in the 'lowest' class.

 

Like Maurici, I won't do any more MSA events. Reasons for me: the stressful scrutineering (the constant feeling that the scrutineers just want to exercise their power and make you squirm, trying their hardest to find something to pick fault at with your kit or the car), the stupid rules (new lithium battery one as an example. If a car is safe enough for a track day, it's more than safe enough for a sprint with only one car on track!), and the lack of track time.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - just like my groceries, there are mutiple 'shops' I can 'buy' my sprinting at. If my current shop doesn't feel like good value, or I don't enjoy it, i'll start to look elsewhere. Then when I find one that does suit me better, the previous shop will have a heck of a job getting me back, especially if it doesn't make significant changes.

Barny asked me to post the following:

 

"I run in a sprint series outside of WSCC which operates a first past the post scoring system. Generally it works fine. The max score is 100, provided there are sufficient cars in the class (I think its above 5 on the day). Less than 5 cars entered and it's a reducing scale down to 2 cars and 96 points max. This means if you're in a smaller class, you'll never win the overall championship. Sucks if you're in the position, but does motivate those looking for glory to move to the bigger classes. However the scoring for single vehicle on the day needs review. I'll give you a specific example that is playing out across 3 or 4 different classes in that series right now. I am in the situation where I have won my class on the day by a pretty significant margin at each round I've attended (despite having the slowest car by an also significant margin, which supports Maurici's point) with an average score of 95 (thanks to letting Adam double drive and him beating me, otherwise it would be 96 as it's a small class!). However, the scoring system is such that if theres only one car in a class, the maximum points score is 75. My closest rival, who I have  beaten by a minimum of several seconds at each event we've attended together, can win my class simply by not turning up to the last round, forcing me to take a 75 point score. That is not right. I have attended 6 events out of 8, where only 6 count, so I don't get a dropped score. I have been at one event of the 5 so far on my own, so am therefore carrying a 75 point score already. Despite being faster, he can win by taking a tactical decision to just not turn up, which in my book completely ruins the competition.

 

I don't think I should claim 100 points for being there on my own, but a 25 point deficit is way too high. 95 would be sufficient, its below the max score for the class but doesn't penalise me for other people's diary management.  There should be a balance between scoring points because you were there and for being the fastest. I hope the SSOT take this under consideration, alongside the scoring adjustment based on number of cars in class, as I wholeheartedly agree that the fastest driver should be rewarded, not just those who have the most free time."

Adam

I do identify somewhat with your point about scrutineering power. It is somewhat of a strange role and I have tried to take some of the tension out of my inspections by trying to develop a relaxed dialogue with the scruts to better understand where they are are coming from and what they want from me! In the main with only one or two exceptions this approach has helped make the process more bearable. I had an end of the day discussion at Blyton in July with the guy who was our chief scrut for the SS w/e to get his take on the Angelsey Cat debacle. Although he had no detailed knowledge of events on the day but based on what I had been told he did say that maybe the situation was not handled in the best manner. He explained that if the Clerk of the Course asks for specific conditions to be inspected they have no grounds to refuse. Any subsequent action as a result of the inspections are down to the Clerk of Course! He did advise that the Championship Eligibility Scruntineer has a major input into such matters to help avoid such occurances happening on the day. The SS has the name of a very experienced scrutineer as Eligibility

Scrutineer listed on the front page of our regs. I have not however experienced any input from this person in respect of advise or guidance! Perhaps this is another area of the SS that the SSOT could investigate and develop for us so that the scrutineering experience is not perhaps so much like queuing outside the headmaster's office like naughty boy's!

Glutey   

[graham frankland]

9 hours ago, Andy Banks - Chairman said:

A more formal Club response is coming but I feel a personal need to reply to Charlotte; Charlotte, thank you, a breath of fresh air and what I'm hopeful everyone is thinking (but not saying en masse). It's so easy to complain, sadly less easy to praise and I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Hi Andy

I look forward to reading the Formal Club response with interest. Including hopefully some feedback on my initial "contructive" proposal to allow the new proposals for the 2020 SS to go ahead with only one significant change.

If the drastic proposals as tabled by the SSOT were actually reasonable and fair for most competitors and introduced in a less dicatorial and clandestine manner then I would have willingly been part of the "well done" campaign! It would be much more pleasant and less time consuming than dealing with what has been tabled so far!

Glutey   

[cphelps]

May I politely suggest that we now close this topic? It's getting to be ectremely disrespectful, and doesn't reflect the friendly, welcoming nature of the Speed Series. These rules are the SSOT trying to revitalise the championship and we have to appreciate their efforts and see how things progress. 

[Captain Colonial]

1 hour ago, cphelps said:

May I politely suggest that we now close this topic? It's getting to be ectremely disrespectful, and doesn't reflect the friendly, welcoming nature of the Speed Series. These rules are the SSOT trying to revitalise the championship and we have to appreciate their efforts and see how things progress. 

Well said.  I thought I’d accidentally stumbled into a Brexit thread (Ssexit?).  My hats off to the team involved in making the rules and for listening to concerns, looking at the past evidence and not being afraid to try something new.  There’s a time to be aggressive and competitive, and it’s on the track and against yourself.  I hope a lot more people are encouraged to get involved as a result and that it’s a roaring success. 

[stephenh]

I suspect that there are some who would only be happy if the rules provided that there is a seperate class for each competitor, that way everybody is guaranteed a class win!!😄

[maurici]

On 07/11/2019 at 00:50, cphelps said:

Maurici, if you will no longer compete in the speed series for other reasons, then these changes have no impact on you.

 

I was going (and I probably still will) to take a license and pay for the speed series as I've done regardless of my intention to compete or not since I'm on this club, as I always end doing the odd weekend here and there... no need to ask me to shut up. I have not been disrespectful at all. Facts have been stated, nothing else.

 

I don't get a few things:

 

First- I, personally, haven't criticized the rules, in fact I've applauded them, as I think are a good step forward to increase the competition. Please, when referring to me take the time to read all my interventions, not only the last one reading it out of context.

 

Second- I also understand people (mainly the guys that were running 1C tyres) to be extremely upset. They are suddenly forced to spend serious money and altering the car either going a step forward,  or an step backwards. 

 

Third- the second point would not be a problem whatsoever,  if this had been consulted,  and given certain notice on it, as requested last year. (Can't no-one else see that? Or they just expect everybody else to agree to disrupt their plans and shut up just to fit with the others with no notice?)

 

Fourth- Stating the FACT that this has been introduced without notice, without being consulted and done in a way that very little can be arranged now because this has been submitted to MSA prior publication in the forum, can't be considered disrespectful, or offensive.  Is a FACT. Isn't how it happened?? Or have I missed something?

 

2 hours ago, stephenh said:

I suspect that there are some who would only be happy if the rules provided that there is a seperate class for each competitor, that way everybody is guaranteed a class win!!

 

I really doubt that... one of the single shared concerns was the lack of unified competition.

I think mos of the people expressing concerns here are moaning about the manners and the timing rather than the content itself.

 

The fact that everybody is happy to just shut up and follow the changes (good or no) and having fingers pointed to the people who doesn't agrees, has a name, and isn't nice... that quite aligns with the way the rules have been introduced, and worries me a bit.

 

Would have the rules been introduced in a different manner, they would have my full support, as I quite like the content.

 

Help was offered las year, to collate all together in a public forum everyone's concerns, have a discussion and draw all together lines to follow. At the end we all make the series... not only the SSOT. So, stop the song "they work for free, we should appreciate their work regardless".

 

Working for free doesn't qualify you work as good, nor will be everyone's taste. And again that would not be a problem if all was open.

For goodness sake, even in the top of motorsport, with billions in budgets, the top minds of the world working to adapt and, near to unlimited resources,  the rules are agreed beforehand between contenders, and given with plenty notice.

 

Why can't we do the same here, in a club, where the only money seen is counted in loses, and the resources are normally a shed, a man, a personal bank account and **** loads of love in the car??

[Marto303]

Build a car to fit a specific class, then spend 5 years and god knows how much time / money further developing it for that class to then have your class wiped out in the blink of an eye without even a discussion, is it any wonder some of us feel a little disappointed. 
 

Now it would seem that if we even dare question the SSOT’s decision we’re being disrespectful, what is going on here ? 
 

 

[AdamR]

Who in the SSOT still competes in a Westfield in the Speed Series?

[Peteroconnor]

Hi all,I am new to the club(a member for about a week) as I am keen to join the speed series after lots of Karting and a few odd sprints..

 

 I am looking to buy a car so reading the forum with a keen interest.

 

reading these messages it’s clear there is still a real passion and enthusiasm for the club, and if the rules and regs are 80% right(whatever that looks like) people will continue to race.

 

fair play to the club for getting the regs out early but I cant help but observe the following

1. concerns over the scoring system 

2. how the classes are divided and does this favour bec or cec?

3. How these will fair once motorsport uk announce the tyre regs?

4. Volume of events is pretty big and with drop rounds you could do well because no one else has turned up to a specific round

 

it would be useful to seek some clarity from the committee and club on these points but I also know from various seasons of over regulated rules on Karting, it is hard to please everyone but some further communication and maybe an opportunity to tweak a 1-2 of the most contentious regs after a vote from the club would be useful.

 

on a personal note it’s not put me off buying a westfield(hopefully going to see Stuart hill’s in a couple of weeks) and if you have this vocal a forum I can’t wait to meet you all in the paddock and at the events

 

thanks

 

pete

[Marto303]

3 minutes ago, Peteroconnor said:

Hi all,I am new to the club(a member for about a week) as I am keen to join the speed series after lots of Karting and a few odd sprints..

 

 I am looking to buy a car so reading the forum with a keen interest.

 

reading these messages it’s clear there is still a real passion and enthusiasm for the club, and if the rules and regs are 80% right(whatever that looks like) people will continue to race.

 

fair play to the club for getting the regs out early but I cant help but observe the following

1. concerns over the scoring system 

2. how the classes are divided and does this favour bec or cec?

3. How these will fair once motorsport uk announce the tyre regs?

4. Volume of events is pretty big and with drop rounds you could do well because no one else has turned up to a specific round

 

it would be useful to seek some clarity from the committee and club on these points but I also know from various seasons over regulated rules on Karting, it is hard to please everyone but some further communication and maybe an opportunity to tweak a 1-2 of the most contentious regs after a vote from the club would be useful.

 

on a personal note it’s not put me off buying a westfield(hopefully going to see Stuart hill’s in a couple of weeks) and if you have this vocal a forum I can’t wait to meet you all in the paddock and at the events

 

thanks

 

pete

Hi Pete

Its great to hear that despite our lively debate your keen to have a go in the SS and I can assure you you will be made very welcome by all. 
 

You’ve picked up very quickly on the passion we all have for our sport and club, it’s that passion that drives those of us who feel strongly about the proposed changes to speak out, it certainly is not a show of disrespect for the organising team. 

 

Stu’s car is very competitive and well developed, you won’t go far wrong with that !

 

Look forward to meeting you in the paddock next season. 
 

Marto 

[graham frankland]

2 hours ago, AdamR said:

Who in the SSOT still competes in a Westfield in the Speed Series?

Good Question!

I think it is TE plus 2 entrants in the proposed G Class

But I could be wrong!

G

[graham frankland]

32 minutes ago, Peteroconnor said:

Hi all,I am new to the club(a member for about a week) as I am keen to join the speed series after lots of Karting and a few odd sprints..

 

 I am looking to buy a car so reading the forum with a keen interest.

 

reading these messages it’s clear there is still a real passion and enthusiasm for the club, and if the rules and regs are 80% right(whatever that looks like) people will continue to race.

 

fair play to the club for getting the regs out early but I cant help but observe the following

1. concerns over the scoring system 

2. how the classes are divided and does this favour bec or cec?

3. How these will fair once motorsport uk announce the tyre regs?

4. Volume of events is pretty big and with drop rounds you could do well because no one else has turned up to a specific round

 

it would be useful to seek some clarity from the committee and club on these points but I also know from various seasons of over regulated rules on Karting, it is hard to please everyone but some further communication and maybe an opportunity to tweak a 1-2 of the most contentious regs after a vote from the club would be useful.

 

on a personal note it’s not put me off buying a westfield(hopefully going to see Stuart hill’s in a couple of weeks) and if you have this vocal a forum I can’t wait to meet you all in the paddock and at the events

 

thanks

 

pete

Pete

We are a great bunch of lads and lasses and I for one is up for a fair olde time both on the track and socially afterwards.

We have a great line in banter but I warn you if you dish it out you have to be able to it! (As I have had to do may times)

Look forward to meeting you somewhere in 2020!

Glutey

[graham frankland]

6 hours ago, Captain Colonial said:

Well said.  I thought I’d accidentally stumbled into a Brexit thread (Ssexit?).  My hats off to the team involved in making the rules and for listening to concerns, looking at the past evidence and not being afraid to try something new.  There’s a time to be aggressive and competitive, and it’s on the track and against yourself.  I hope a lot more people are encouraged to get involved as a result and that it’s a roaring success. 

I guess it is not easy to understand how the proposed new rules affect the different sections of the championship when you have not (i don't think so anyway) participated yourself!

Glutey

[Marto303]

6 hours ago, Captain Colonial said:

Well said.  I thought I’d accidentally stumbled into a Brexit thread (Ssexit?).  My hats off to the team involved in making the rules and for listening to concerns, looking at the past evidence and not being afraid to try something new.  There’s a time to be aggressive and competitive, and it’s on the track and against yourself.  I hope a lot more people are encouraged to get involved as a result and that it’s a roaring success. 

Scott

Thats exactly the point we feel unhappy about.

 

The SSOT have changed everything without even asking our opinions let alone listening to our concerns.