Westfield Sport 250 advice

[Nick729]

In regards to the ECU:

• OEM FORD ECU are still in stock at Westfield
• SCS ECU is offered as an alternative

Seeing as there is no chance of getting anyone decent to work their magic over here, I believe my best bet is to stay stock. 

2 hours ago, BugMan said:

If you go for the 4 pot brake upgrade they seem to squeak like hell at slow braking speed, some have looked at believing the leading edge of the shoes, copper grease and adhesive pads and I've yet to get to the bottom of this.

I did have 4 pot brake kit option on the FW SE, and passenger side rear brake squeaked all the time under medium load - really annoying. 

2 hours ago, BugMan said:

Don't be fooled into thinking its a single cost either, you will find you need to budget for all sorts of things like paint, nuts and bolts, tools, fluids and a whole lot of hassle etc.

What do you mean here? I had loads of bolts, nuts, and parts left over mainly due to them being stock parts, that were replaced by optional equipment ordered  As far as i remember the only thing, i had to buy for FW SE was the battery (and tools), due to the fact that it cannot be transported. Everything else, including all the fluids were supplied by WF.

The options i have picked for 250:

Powder coated chassis panels                          

Upgrade to Limited Slip differential               

Upgrade to Wide track wishbones                 

Front anti roll bar                     

Rear anti roll bar                       

Upgrade to Track Day shock absorbers         

Upgrade to Westfield Race front and rear caliper                  

Upgrade to 205 width R888R tyres                

Upgrade to 8" rear wheels    

Digital dash upgrade               

Heater kit        

Upgrade to FW rear Diffuser

Upgrade to FW rear body      

LED light pack FW Body (less headlamps)    

LED head lamps                         

Upgrade to MSA half cage     

Carbon effect stone gaurds FW and Classic 

Upgrade to Sport Turbo seats with diamond stitch               

3" Four point harness upgrade                        

Quick release steering column and race steering wheel     

Half Hood and Side screen kit FW Body Sport 250 - do these fit in the FW boot?

Not sure about the shock choice - track vs competition? Any thoughts? Mostly non track use. I had stock shocks on FW SE, which were far too soft even for that car.

 

FW SE took ~3 months to build, received in early April, was completely finished by mid July. I assume it would take me a far shorter time to assemble since it would be a second car, most of the options (LSD, wide track wishbones, seats, harnesses, both anti-roll bars) were on the first kit too. Also, brake lines, fuel lines, panels and wiring harness would be factory fitted, i don't fancy doing it again myself at all  

 

Very nice build diary BugMan and detailed answer - will have a more detailed look at it later tonight!

 

[BugMan]

2 hours ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

Ok you got me there 

very much coooooolllleeeerrrrr but what Steve says is right

[BugMan]

Glad to be of help bud, I took good ideas from all the builds on here and spent a lot of time researching myself as well as talking to my club mates in my local area.

I through long and hard about ARB's but TBH I'm not that brave decided against them.  Been posts here about other supplier ARB's being better but was something I gave up on quite quickly as I'm not really track focused.

LED stuff is only just becoming good here in the UK as we have to watch out for legislation here with "Kite" marks I believe, but if you are ever going to get caught out at night, I'd deff go for them, although the WF ones looked bl**** expensive.

When I talk about other costs its just a personnel thing as I picked up things from the likes of Steve and Dave and did things like spray paint all my panels before fixing them, and while only 1300 odd miles in so-far everything is holding up well.  If I had my time over again I'd paint the fuel tank (get the long range tank if not already on your list).  I also fitted sound/heat insulation within all the voids in the chassis, and while I don't have much of a comparison my tunel never gets hot and I think helps with noise somewhat.  You can probably tell I'm a bit OCD on things mechanical.  As you have already built one before you probably have most of what you need in the way of tooling, but decent rivet nut tool worth weight in gold IMHO.

Think the powder coated frame is Std now, or was when I bought mine, but would also recommend following Dave's recommendation of Dinitrol products internal to the frame when drilling, and painting.

I originally selected R8888's but then canceled them and sourced my own R1R's which had a better reputation for general use.  the R888's needed a bit more time to warm up for my liking.

The 1/2 hood that Wf sell may well be from SBFS, and if some comes with a small tote bag which you attach to the rear hoop, don't think you could get anything like that in the FW boot, It's really small and only good for a few tools and some 2.5L fuel can's.

The rest of your list looks good, and if I had my time again I'd go for the better rear roll-bar (MSA) as the std one while looking OK, is only held on by a pair of M14 bolts from underneath.

My kit came with an additional GRP nose duct, which is effectively glued to the rad/intercooler to force as much air through as possible - I'd deff ask for that as well if it's not Std.

Still not sure I'd have the factory fit initial panels and pipe/wiring as would stop you from pre-preparing them with paint, and I'd switch out the supplied silicon adhesive for some P40 or something better. 1/2 my cockpit was siliconed and TBH it's crap compared with the other 1/2 P40/Silkflex etc.

[Exitus]

4 hours ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

Only if you fit wider tyres. Standard 205s are actually below the min width for the 8" rears. Wider tyres not easy to come by in 15".

Though it appears that you can get R888rs in 235/50/R15... Might be tempted next time I need rear tyres!

Edit - though they are eye-wateringly expensive! 

[Exitus]

Some excellent points there from everyone.

I completely agree about the sump - we hit it on the ground and cracked it on our first run out, at the suggested ride height. We've not hit it again, but the car is quite high now. We'll be changing the sump, but it would have been far easier before we'd fitted the engine!

The uprated brakes are noisy - they really work though. Interestingly the noise (squeal and rattle) goes away when you are on track and they get really hot. Which apparently is the point.

We didn't go with the ARBs, and tbh haven't missed them - it corners fairly flat without them.

And expect to have to do some fiddling with the cooling! A new thermostat and grille seems to be about the minimum for the road.

[Kingster]

2 hours ago, Nick729 said:

Front anti roll bar                     

Rear anti roll bar                       

 Upgrade to Track Day shock absorbers         

To be honest, unless you plan to do a lot of track days, in my opinion our cars are better suited without them for road use. 

I have ARBs and disconnect them for any road trips. But I do like them on track. 

[Nick729]

The options i have listed here are from  the current option list of the Sport 250. 

1 hour ago, BugMan said:

If I had my time over again I'd paint the fuel tank (get the long range tank if not already on your list)

I think the long range tank comes standard with FW rear, at least the FW SE I had was with the long range tank and it was not an option in the price list. Any particular reason why you would paint it? You can't see it at all

1 hour ago, BugMan said:

Think the powder coated frame is Std now

You are correct on the powder coated chassis, you might have misread the option, as it is powder coated panels and not chassis  this was not on the option list when i was ordering the FW SE. 

I really liked the idea of insulating the tunnel, although I could not say that there was ever need for it on the  FW SE, no heat or noise issues that bothered me. 

1 hour ago, BugMan said:

My kit came with an additional GRP nose duct, which is effectively glued to the rad/intercooler to force as much air through as possible - I'd deff ask for that as well if it's not Std.

I asked about the cooling issues and the response was: 

"We had an issue with some inter coolers being too dense and restricting airflow to the radiator. This has now been resolved"

I will keep this possible issue in mind though. 

1 hour ago, Exitus said:

I completely agree about the sump - we hit it on the ground and cracked it on our first run out, at the suggested ride height

I assume it is a lot lower than the FW SE, the lowest part on that was the frame support that hangs down below the gearbox i believe (memory might be lacking). Did not have any issues with clearance on that. Wonder how much lower is the 250?! 

1 hour ago, Exitus said:

The uprated brakes are noisy - they really work though. Interestingly the noise (squeal and rattle) goes away when you are on track and they get really hot. Which apparently is the point.

There are 2 types of uprated brakes - the 4 pot Westfield (£450) and the other one is Westfield Race (£775). I had the 4 pot on FW SE, decent brakes apart from the squeak and i think these are the ones that a few of you mentioned. On 250 I optioned the Race brakes - any feedback on those?

1 hour ago, Chris King - Webmaster and Joint North East AO said:

To be honest, unless you plan to do a lot of track days, in my opinion our cars are better suited without them for road use.

I had front and back ARB's on the FW SE -  i had them since day one, could not complain as i had no experience driving without them   Note taken though.

Any thoughts on Track day shocks vs Competition shocks? 

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Nick729

[Kingster]

1 minute ago, Nick729 said:

I had front and back ARB's on the FW SE -  i had them since day one, could not complain as i had no experience driving without them   Note taken though.

 Any thoughts on Track day shocks vs Competition shocks? 

I started without ARBs and did tours of the Alps. Welsh mountains and Scottish Highlands. Handling was absolutely fine and often spent 10-12 hrs in the seat without too much discomfort.

After fitting ARBs I did a 200 miles day out around the local roads and came home knackered! The ride was so much more harsh and jarring.

However I now have got used to them a bit more and last weekend’s 200 mile run was not too bad.

Highlands will beckon in June and I will disconnect them for that though.

Cant comment on shocks as I’ve only used the single adjustable ProTechs that I fitted during the build in 2014/15

 

[David Oxfordshire]

Just throwing a spanner in the works here...my 1.6 Ecoboost is coming in at 600Kg with no screen or heater :-)

[Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO]

Sounds like a nice spec. You must have ticked most of the boxes on the options list (with a bit of "help" from Mr Westwood I guess? Hope  he throws in a WSCC brollie  )

Not being critical, personally not sure on the anti roll bars are necessary for mainly road use.

Presume the quick release steering column is ok for any inspection needed in your country. Don't believe it will pass the IVA in the UK. I bought mine from WF and fitted it after I'd been on the road for a while.

Half hood and side screens won't fit in the FW boot! Be worth making sure a bag is included for your hood. It can just sit behind the seats, strapped to the roll bar

I've got the "race" brakes. They certainly stop the car well. The fronts were, noisy particularly at low speeds, tried appropriate grease, then tape, then both. Worked for a short while but noise returned! Consulted with HiSpec, advised to try chamfer on leading and trailing edges of pads. Much improved noise wise, particularly when used hard. Can still be noisy in gentle urban driving. Some are of the opinion they are over the top for a Westie. But I'm content, they work well, which given the performance on tap is important IMHO.

I went for the standard shock absorbers and springs, to date they've been fine. Never had the car bottom out, even touring two up with luggage!

In terms of sump clearance, here's some photos to show difference.

Original standard sump:

Side view

Front view

Shallow sump:

Side view 

 

Front view

Sumps compared

Before changing, the sump was lower than the chassis hoop. Now the chassis hoop is the lowest part, ground a bit flat to prove it!

A lot of the 250 build will be the same/similar as the FW special you've built already, with some obvious differences:

The electrics are a bit more challenging with the Ecoboost loom, and incorporating the Aim dash. However once you get your head round it, basically it's "plug and play".

The plumbing, water and air will be different, but straightforward once you work out what goes where.

My car was 675kg in IVA trim.

Not sure if 250 build manual exists yet, know one is/was in production. But to be honest whatever route you go down, would highly recommend creating a build thread on here. It's a great way to tap into a wealth of Westfield expertise. If you go the 250 route think there are four build threads including mine on here already. Build threads of all models provide a good insight, often with unique useful ideas.

Hope that helps, shout if you've got any further queries.

 

[Nick729]

 

11 hours ago, AdgeC said:

You must have ticked most of the boxes on the options list (with a bit of "help" from Mr Westwood I guess? Hope  he throws in a WSCC brollie  )

FW SE was purchased with the primary intent for self assembly rather than for the end product, without too much research. I don't think the Sport 250 was offered as a complete kit at the time (i might be wrong on that). The spec on 250 is more geared towards the end result and not the assembly process, thus the long option list

11 hours ago, AdgeC said:

Not being critical, personally not sure on the anti roll bars are necessary for mainly road use.

I agree that for road use they are not needed, but I am the kind of guy who will regret not having them, even though there is no need for them

The standard sump does seem to be very low, I assume this is the recommended shallow sump:

https://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part_section.asp?categoryID=10 &SectionID=107

I saw the write up of your sump modification, seems complicated, involving sourcing different parts from different suppliers. The link above from my understanding is a complete kit from one source that does not require any other parts from other suppliers? Is that correct?

Side screens - are they usable without the hood? Don't they flap about since the back of it is not fixed to anything? 

Thank you all for the input, it's been of great help

[Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO]

9 minutes ago, Nick729 said:

The standard sump does seem to be very low, I assume this is the recommended shallow sump:

https://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part_section.asp?categoryID=10 &SectionID=107

I saw the write up of your sump modification, seems complicated, involving sourcing different parts from different suppliers. The link above from my understanding is a complete kit from one source that does not require any other parts from other suppliers? Is that correct?

As I understand it the Raceline sump still isn't available to purchase. In theory it will offer a sump and oil pickup all in one. I don't know if it comes with the "balance shaft delete kit", or shorter timing chain cover bolts (they are the sort of thing you might well have "on stock" in your garage?).

The PowerTorque sump was all that was available when I changed mine over 12 months ago, apart from the hiccup with being given the wrong part no. initially for oil pickup, it was straightforward. Just had to purchase from 3 different sources.

Understand your logic with options, I took the same approach, wanted to get the spec. as good as I could (based on having no previous WF experience or kit build experience!) first time.

I run virtually all the time with sidescreen on, find they reduce the buffeting considerably. Did find the the top rear corner was tapping my crash helmet when doing 115mph down the Mulsanne straight at Le Mans last year (wasn't sure what it was at first!). That's the one and only time I've noticed it though.

From my experience I think the half hood is a good option, stayed comfortable in some heavy rain on long trips.

Happy pondering, it's great trying to help somebody spend their money 

[Nick729]

46 minutes ago, AdgeC said:

As I understand it the Raceline sump still isn't available to purchase. In theory it will offer a sump and oil pickup all in one.

Not available yet, but they informed me that it will be available in about a month. They couldn't answer the question is it a full bolt on kit with no other parts needed, but did mention that some have been fitted to Westfields and apparently did not need any other modifications or parts as far as they know..

[Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO]

1 hour ago, Nick729 said:

Not available yet, but they informed me that it will be available in about a month. They couldn't answer the question is it a full bolt on kit with no other parts needed, but did mention that some have been fitted to Westfields and apparently did not need any other modifications or parts as far as they know..

Believe they've been "developing" the Ecoboost sump for a while, Bugman & Exitus have been talking with them since the beginning of the year!

The Ecoboost needs the balance shaft assembly removing to fit a shallow sump. It's a hefty lump bolted to the underside of the block.

The oil supply then needs blanking, hence the need for the balance shaft delete kit (grandiose name for blanking plug!).

Believe Raceline supply shallow sumps for various other Ford (Duratec, Zetec etc) engines fitted to Westfields, assume they don't have the balance shaft assembly though.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

The sump from power torque really isn't too much of a drama. I even bought the new pickup from them too and they cut it to suit for me aswell. It was half the price of the race line and very decent quality. You then just need a balance shaft delete which are easily sourced.

As above though would have been a nice job to do with the engine on the stand rather than getting oil dripped on with the engine fitted.

Regardless of what your told. If you want to use the 250 on the road you 100% need a skinnier sump. That plus the fact the standard fit sump isn't designed to be used in a longitudinal config. Ford racing even used to list a rwd sump if fitting longitudinally (too deep for our application.)