Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 17 hours ago, Shane2me said: Hi Guys, So I went to visit the Westfield factory in Perth today, and I'm so glad that I did. Mark and Jez had some great info for me as I continue to gather information before starting the build. Apparently using a dry sump system on the f20c engine helps everything to fit under the bonnet, as apparently things can get a bit close even under the bigger v8 bonnet. Also, I gathered that the complete cost of the car was going to be about $60k AUD. Thats about $30-35k GBP. I was wondering what everyones experiences on here are with their total costs for building their Westfields? Thats a bit more expensive than I originally estimated, but I still think it would be good value. How much did you guys end up spending to get your westfields on the road? I know its going to be different for each build, but I'd love to have an accurate estimation before starting. Cheers, Shane Hi Shane, Glad your visit to the factory went well. I don't agree on the need for the dry sump kit. I don't know any UK S2000's Westies (and I know at least 15) that have fitted one. Many S2000's are tracked and the factory supplied anti - slosh plate seems to avoid any oil starvation issues. As far as ground clearance goes, there is a chassis hoop under the gearbox, near. the bell housing that is lower than the sump and we've all scraped this many times and it get's gradually worn away! (I've probably re-painted mine circa 10 times in 11,000 miles). The V8 bonnet copes fine and you have to remove the MAF from the Honda inlet and replace with a blanking plate to avoid it hitting the bonnet! It's difficult to advise on total cost, as you state everyone builds a different spec car. Mine was circa £25K on the road (take a look in my build thread for the spec). Others have done it cheaper by buying a wrecked S2000, breaking it and selling the bits. They've typically ended up with the engine and box for free this way. I'll try to find a better pic from the front or side of the underneath to show you the clearance. Best regards, Ian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 For £30 - 35k you could get a sport 250 kit, (2L Ford ecoboost engine) with everything brand new. A completely different car to drive than a Honda engined car, not a high revving engine, but powerful, with bags (some might say more than it needs!) of torque. Not saying the 250 is a better car, I enjoy mine, but respect the opinions of owners of other models. Just throwing ideas into the melting pot! As for overall costs, as said, its down to individuals, I keep promising myself I'm going to add up what mine has cost me to date. But I haven't been brave enough yet! I've found the spending doesn't stop when the car is on the road either, upgraditus seems to creep in. Whichever way you decide to go with your Westfield experience, best of luck, sure you'll get lots of enjoyment. Would heartily recommend a build thread when you start. The experience you can tap into remotely from WSCC members is second to none, helped me enormously on my build. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 2 hours ago, AdgeC said: For £30 - 35k you could get a sport 250 kit, (2L Ford ecoboost engine) with everything brand new. A completely different car to drive than a Honda engined car, not a high revving engine, but powerful, with bags (some might say more than it needs!) of torque. Not saying the 250 is a better car, I enjoy mine, but respect the opinions of owners of other models. Just throwing ideas into the melting pot! As for overall costs, as said, its down to individuals, I keep promising myself I'm going to add up what mine has cost me to date. But I haven't been brave enough yet! I've found the spending doesn't stop when the car is on the road either, upgraditus seems to creep in. Whichever way you decide to go with your Westfield experience, best of luck, sure you'll get lots of enjoyment. Would heartily recommend a build thread when you start. The experience you can tap into remotely from WSCC members is second to none, helped me enormously on my build. @AdgeCI 'think' I'm correct that a Sport250 has even less ground clearance than an S2000 until you do the sump swap etc. Don't suppose you've any pics to share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 27 minutes ago, IanK (Bagpuss) said: @AdgeCI 'think' I'm correct that a Sport250 has even less ground clearance than an S2000 until you do the sump swap etc. Don't suppose you've any pics to share? Yep, sure have:- Original sump from front Original from n/s side Shallow sump from front Shallow sump from o/s side Shallow sump from o/s, Lowe than n/s, but still above chassis hoop. Since changing the sump, I'm grinding the chassis hoop away, much preferable to grinding the sump away! Can now really enjoy driving the car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Spot on @AdgeC the original is much lower than the S2000! the Shallow sump looks comparable to the standard S2000 one in height from the floor. I trust you're running similar ride heights to me(140mm front 165mm rear)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane2me Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Thanks guys, old mate did say the the dry sump kit is about $3k so I'm glad I don't have to go down that path! So one supplier has managed to track down an engine for me. 90,000kms, the loom is included but it has no clutch or flywheel. I should be able to find the missing bits locally, but it looks like the important parts are there. Is there anything visible from the pics that I should be concerned about? I've never seen one of these engines in real life before, and they are 18 years old now, so I suppose a bit of wear and tear is to be expected... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 38 minutes ago, IanK (Bagpuss) said: I trust you're running similar ride heights to me(140mm front 165mm rear)? Yep, that's what mines been set up to. Over to the S2k experts for the engine analysis! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Not the best pics. But looks like most of the sensors are there and the Vtec Solenoid (£400!). Is it a drive by cable throttle rather than wire? As you say clutch and flywheel aren't a problem and most change to new items as part of the build. Stick with a standard clutch but a lightened flywheel. The uprated clutches aren't needed, seem to break and aren't as easy to use. The Loom is necessary as the Honda plugs on coil packs etc aren't easy to come by in low quantities. If you got the Omex ECU route, they will want the loom to graft the plugs onto their loom. I'd personally want to see it in a car, running and do compression tests on it before spending the sort of money these great engines go for! In the UK you typically get 3 months warranty, so for most builders it too late by the time you fire them up for the first time to see if you've bough an expensive 'paper weight' How much is it? I know you're eager to get building but it may be worth looking elsewhere too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 @Shane2me sure you will have seen this, but just in case, a longstanding WF owner in W Australia! Not good at geography so might be miles away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane2me Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Thanks @AdgeC , I just sent Greg a message to say hi, it would be good to meet a few west aussies who have been through the build process. And regarding your earlier comment, I have looked at the ecoboost option before, and it looks like a good way to go. I have a bit of an attachment to Honda though, as I learnt to drive in an '86 Civic on the farm and then my first car was a '95 Accord and now I'm back in a '02 Accord. So I think if I were to build a car then I would have to have some Honda flavour in there somewhere! And thanks for sharing the pics too, its good to see what sort of ground clearance we can get away with! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane2me Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 47 minutes ago, IanK (Bagpuss) said: Not the best pics. But looks like most of the sensors are there and the Vtec Solenoid (£400!). Is it a drive by cable throttle rather than wire? As you say clutch and flywheel aren't a problem and most change to new items as part of the build. Stick with a standard clutch but a lightened flywheel. The uprated clutches aren't needed, seem to break and aren't as easy to use. The Loom is necessary as the Honda plugs on coil packs etc aren't easy to come by in low quantities. If you got the Omex ECU route, they will want the loom to graft the plugs onto their loom. I'd personally want to see it in a car, running and do compression tests on it before spending the sort of money these great engines go for! In the UK you typically get 3 months warranty, so for most builders it too late by the time you fire them up for the first time to see if you've bough an expensive 'paper weight' How much is it? I know you're eager to get building but it may be worth looking elsewhere too. I'll have to ask for a few more pictures that show the front and back ends and the sides so that we can have a proper look. If they're expecting me to buy it from a photo then the least the can do is supply some good ones! I'm not sure if its a dbw or dbc throttle, I'll ask that in my next email. I'm trying to organise this with a supplier in the UK actually, as literally none of the importers or wreckers in Aus have shown much interest in sourcing something for me. I wasn't sure about buying a complete car and then wrecking it, as there aren't many S2000's on the road here in sleepy old Perth. I think the major buyers would be on ebay and gumtree (Aussie swap and sell website). They're asking €3850 for the engine and gearbox. I'm not sure if this is expensive or not in the UK, but it works out to be about $6k AUD. Considering that the cheapest S2000 in Aus is $15k, with 200,000kms on it, I thought this was pretty good value, depending on freight costs to get it here and its running condition. As you say, hopefully it isn't just an expensive paperweight! I will keep searching though, hopefully something comes up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 That looks like a pre 2004 or thereabouts engine to me, the valve on the rocker cover that connects to the inlet manifold comes out vertically, before turning through 90 degrees to connect to the inlet on the earlier engine. In addition, it's got an air temp sender mounted on the inlet manifold, I'm not 100% on this, but I'm sure I read that the later engines, 06 onwards, that were drive by wire, had this relocated further away from the engine heat, and in the trunking that connects the throttle body to airbox. you can also, I think, just about make out the coolant plumbing that sits above the idle control valve. The Drive by wire car doesn't have the IACV, and lastly, I think you can just see the front of the cable operated throttle pulley in the second engine shot. You're absolutely right though, for that money I'd expect decent shots of every side, and of the sump. The engine prices have risen strongly over here, too. It reflects the S2000's move into appreciating modern classic territory. I've not looked for twelve months or so, but the average seemed to be creeping up past £3500 last time I did look. (Though there are always a few extremes, at either end of the price scale). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy (Sycho) Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 As Dave says that does look like an AP1 engine which also have a few other different parts like a lighter flywheel & different clutch slave cylinder I believe. Here’s some pictures of mine to compare And as Ian said cost can vary greatly, I effectively got the engine for free after breaking an s2000 which I would say saved me £3000-£4000. I also sourced a lot of parts, so it was sub £17000 build on the road. But that was 3 years ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane2me Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 @Andy (Sycho)You've done a beautiful job on the engine mate. And thanks for the build cost too. I'd love it if I could get away with building one for that price! There is another wrecker in Sydney who might have a complete engine and gearbox for me, I was supposed to hear back from him today but didn't. Hopefully it's still there after the weekend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 @Shane2me I couldn't find any better pics to show the hoop under the gearbox, so I've taken some fresh ones for you:. Note these were with no driver in. I suspect the hoop will be circa 10mm lower with me in (I'm about 70kgs)! Side view ground clearance to hoop = 83mm View from front showing hoop in respect to engine sump Sump clearance from side 90mm seat mount studs to floor clearance circa 115mm Battery tray bottom to ground clearance circa 145mm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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