Sport 250 Review on Top Gear site

[DonPeffers]

Let's hope the factory take Thrustyjust's suspension experience and improvement on board.  Oh and happy birthday.

Looking at the Elise looks like a 1.8 £44k model needed for similar performance to the 250 sport--similar price tag for the Atom.

Looking at the 420 Caterham,  £31k factory built but check the additional costs like standard paint £1250, weather protection £1250,  widebody £2.500  see http://uk.caterhamcars.com/sites/default/files/content/270-310-360-420_price_specification_v1.6.pdf  and price can jump up.

[Thrustyjust]

3 hours ago, terry everall said:

She should have delayed her hairdo ....simples!

Could have saved 'us' a fortune too Terry.................. but we had a great time in the car, so she has been unknotting her hair this evening without complaint 

[Thrustyjust]

3 hours ago, DonPeffers said:

Let's hope the factory take Thrustyjust's suspension experience and improvement on board.  Oh and happy birthday.

Looking at the Elise looks like a 1.8 £44k model needed for similar performance to the 250 sport--similar price tag for the Atom.

Looking at the 420 Caterham,  £31k factory built but check the additional costs like standard paint £1250, weather protection £1250  see http://uk.caterhamcars.com/sites/default/files/content/270-310-360-420_price_specification_v1.6.pdf  and price can jump up.

Thanks Don, was a nice chilled birthday. I dont think the factory would be interested in my changes. I believe they have 'developed' the product and any feedback will be ousted sadly. 

[Thrustyjust]

So, it seems Total Kit Car this month have reviewed the same car and its absolutely perfect in every sense according to Steve Hole. Really ? Has the factory changed anything before it went out on the road with them or is it just a back scratching exercise for the mag on ' you pay for advertising in our mag, we will give you singing reviews' ? Seems very strange as just seems a selling technique, albeit a very see through one.  I guess the real test is owners reviewing what they think and needs to tinker with to get work right and not to potentially same industries that live in each others pockets for genuine reviewing, which Top Gear dont do. So, @AdgeC, get that IVA in the bag and the chap with Steve's lovely car and tell us how you find them.

[andy665]

I know someone who has recently left Westfield after a long long time with them.

He has not left them for more money, promotion - he has left them because he no longer felt proud of the companys products and the working environment had taken a significant tumble. His view was that profit was becoming more important than quality and corners were being cut.

Now of course this could be sour grapes and / or completely untrue but it does set you thinking. 

 

[tolf]

Yep, anorher clanger from Westfield. Why oh why did they give a car out to test when clearly it had not been prepared or modified for track use?

[Steve (sdh2903)]

8 hours ago, Thrustyjust said:

So, it seems Total Kit Car this month have reviewed the same car and its absolutely perfect in every sense according to Steve Hole. Really ? Has the factory changed anything before it went out on the road with them or is it just a back scratching exercise for the mag on ' you pay for advertising in our mag, we will give you singing reviews' ? Seems very strange as just seems a selling technique, albeit a very see through one.  I guess the real test is owners reviewing what they think and needs to tinker with to get work right and not to potentially same industries that live in each others pockets for genuine reviewing, which Top Gear dont do. So, @AdgeC, get that IVA in the bag and the chap with Steve's lovely car and tell us how you find them.

Could it not be a case of differing expectations? A guy testing for top gear driving much more exotic machinery vs a guy driving kit cars?

[Thrustyjust]

5 hours ago, sdh2903 said:

Could it not be a case of differing expectations? A guy testing for top gear driving much more exotic machinery vs a guy driving kit cars?

Potentially  Steve, but it just smelt wrong all the way through. I am sure that he probably drives some right pieces of junk, made from old BMW's and Metro's , so his perception of a car is going to be different. But read the review and see what you think. Its quite comical. Personally I dont want my car to be based on BMW's re-incarnated , but a developed over many years sportscar, which is where Top gear review it, as we are side runners to the Caterham, whatever people may say. And we are the 'Clumsy Caterham' is not what we should be but an 'alternative to Caterham'. 

I genuinely want to know on how people find the new engine. I did enjoy your reviewing of your car and just want to know more and see if any personal development from others now you had to let it go. The S2000 is a great engine, but to me can get a little tiresome screaming the life out of it , so contemplating on if the ST is something I should fit in it or supercharge to get more lower end power and creepy reviews dont really help to open my mind.

[Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO]

Interesting discussion, quite happy to add my "two penneth" when I'm on the road. However, you'll have to bear in mind this is my first experience of a car of this type, its going to be an eye opener to say the least!! May be a while before I can comment constructively on handling, first priority will be keeping it on the road!

[Steve (sdh2903)]

7 hours ago, Thrustyjust said:

I genuinely want to know on how people find the new engine. I did enjoy your reviewing of your car and just want to know more and see if any personal development from others now you had to let it go. The S2000 is a great engine, but to me can get a little tiresome screaming the life out of it , so contemplating on if the ST is something I should fit in it or supercharge to get more lower end power and creepy reviews dont really help to open my mind.

I don't think that the review took any aim at the engine itself more the build quality and chassis handling.

The engine itself is a belter. Instant power, the turbo is boosting from 1500 revs so in real world terms it's always available. For cruising it's phenomenal. Stick the car in 4th and just leave it there down to 15-20 mph no problem. And then when you open it up wow it shifts. My brother in law has an fq330 evo 10 and even he was impressed with the pickup. It's economical too giving mid to high 30s mpg.

Sadly I never got round to tweaking the handling too much but I did end up with the same 10" 225lb springs as thrusty but never got round to fitting. They did go with the car So maybe the new owner has fitted them.

The main problem was (I may be wrong) is that Westfield basically used same chassis and suspension settings from the s2000 and sent it out the door. If they want to be a serious competitor to caterhams higher end models then investing an amount in suspension development was necessary. I'm not saying it wasn't anything that couldn't be fixed with tweaks and suspension changes, but, with a car of this cost and it's competitors, this tweaking and research should be done before the car gets to the end user, not by the end user.

[DonPeffers]

Important to compare like with like in terms of size, weight, performance (speed, acceleration and agility) and cost.

When I ordered my new 150bhp Westfield in 2013 (£19k),  a new narrow S3 Caterham with weather, paint, removable steering wheel, harness, leather seats etc was £26.8k with 1.6 engine and 125bhp (or £29.3k for the wider, heavier widebody SV) which meant the SV was £10k dearer than the Westfield. (Latest S3 comes with 135bhp or upwards).

Confusingly Caterham name their models as twice the engine power----ie 135bhp becomes the 270 model even though the 540kg (corrected from 550kg) S3 is over the half tonne weight and the actual bhp/tonne is 250.

My brain rationalised that the Westfield was not the 'Clumsy Caterham'  (to use the provocative Top Gear wording)  but was in fact the 'value for money Caterham'.

I have not driven an SV Caterham but given its size I doubt it will handle much better than a Westfield. The S3 narrow at 11ft long and about 550kg is of course a smaller car and you and your passenger will feel like two larger persons vying for the same aeroplane armrest. I owned an S3 for many years and its a great drive but it's almost as if the car does it without your input which I don't like (just as I don't like cruise control).

I can't criticise the Top Gear article regarding how the reviewer rated the suspension settings as I have not driven that car. It was most other aspects of the Top Gear review that I found laughable. All kitcars are a handful on bumpy roads hence the Lotus/Caterham magazine titled 'Lowflying'. One of the joys of kitcar ownership is tinkering to find what suits you.

Clearly unacceptable for bits to fall off as the Top Gear reviewer reported but I would not have reviewed a car with alleged badly juddering brakes as this alone would have inhibited my use of the cars performance.

Very glad to report nothing has dropped off my westie in over 3 years and 18,000 miles.

[MK11]

The shocks and springs supplied with the XI were not the best set up either.  The shocks had almost no droop and the springs were far too hard.

[Thrustyjust]

53 minutes ago, MK11 said:

The shocks and springs supplied with the XI were not the best set up either.  The shocks had almost no droop and the springs were far too hard.

I believe Stephen had issues with his springs or shocks too. The springs on the rear are the same on all Westie cars ( not known about the 11's) So, they may come to us as a 'base' setting spring, as everyone drives differently/ more sprited/ like a grandad ( allegedly me , weirdly) , so obviously springs will need to be changed to relate to this and also to driver and passenger weight. But, unless I weighed less than a mosquitos love sausage and I know Oli is 3 stone wet through, the springs were wrong for my car. I have had others saying that they have been 2 up and white springs have been fine, but they also had an ARB , which you use a lighter spring for anyway. I dont run an ARB.  I am looking forward to Steves car and the new owner maybe giving an insight to if he changes the springs and feedback. If it was me and I found customers questioning shock and spring rates, then I would be trying to find out why this seems to work better on a car.

If anyone from Westfields want to come over and go for a spin in my car and find out what difference it makes, then let me know. 

Little bit off track from the main posting I know 

 

 

[DonPeffers]

On 9/7/2017 at 18:26, andy665 said:

I know someone who has recently left Westfield after a long long time with them.

He has not left them for more money, promotion - he has left them because he no longer felt proud of the companys products and the working environment had taken a significant tumble. His view was that profit was becoming more important than quality and corners were being cut.

Now of course this could be sour grapes and / or completely untrue but it does set you thinking. 

 

How many organisations could the above be said of?  Police, Teaching, Banking, Social work, Medicine, Clergy etc.

When surveys are carried out commonly the result is about 40% say they will leave an organisation within 2-3 years, yet how many do?

From The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin TV comedy----As CJ said in the final episode: "You've been on a switchback of fate, Reggie. You were discontented. You believed there is a greener hill far away with grass on the other side, and you went in search of it. But you discovered there isn't a greener hill far away with grass on the other side... You've returned, Reggie, a better and wiser man..."

Contentment is a elusive thing.

[DonPeffers]

On 9/8/2017 at 08:08, Thrustyjust said:

where Top gear review it, as we are side runners to the Caterham, whatever people may say. And we are the 'Clumsy Caterham' is not what we should be but an 'alternative to Caterham'. 

I wouldn't worry about a snide catchphrase they might think clever. 

Can you for one minute imagine a Top Gear review of say Ford starting with the words  'well known to lawyers after the Robert Kearns intermittent wiper patent royalties lawsuit or the Ford Pinto fires lawsuit'?

Easy pickings to slate a small independent company.

With my saved £10k I can upgrade springs or whatever.