Tyre Question/Class for 2016

[pete g]

tyre rule must of  changed last year , I don't run in the lower class so never checked in the wscc rules . so it still gives you the option to run ditch finders if you wish.

like you said most people decided to run the better tyre. surprise that ?.

 

did the cost put them off [no]because they used them   because the gain is cheaper than a engine upgrade  for same advantage.

 

so we are all on cheap tyres who is going to win .. the bloke with the best set up car normally and bigger wallet normally.

 

with worse tyres traction control will rule. then watch everyone moan about that not the tyres  .

 

the facts are the 1c tyres were on the 1b list last year [same tyre no difference ] its road legal .its e marked . it was ok for last 5 years or so . if msa say it has to be emarked  them whats the problem .

what class can you now run a 1c tyre .

as windy has pointed out there are exemptions and they have not followed them.  well only one pre 1990 cars are ok.

 

nice level playing field

[paul n]

Apologies if I have that wrong but from other posts it seems to suggest that the MSA made people aware that this would happen in 2016 ?! I.e people were given a years notice ? If they do give people another year to use up their current tyres will this argument happen again in 2017 ?

[B.RAD]

Yeah sorry Paul you've got that wrong, no notice was given. There was a consultation on forcing ALL road going classes to run 1a tyres in the summer, the competitors spoke up and said no thanks, so they ran this ruling instead, without consultation.

The EU ruling from 2014 you refer to is in regard to the tyre grading for noise (F/G issue) so we expected to lose some tyres, but were always given a 2 year grace warning for any changes. So we're thinking this will hit from late 2016/early 2017. Obviously if we knew things would change, we wouldn't have invested.

[Meteor Motorsport]

The list 1c tyres will be sold new.  They may not be e marked and will have some wording on the side to say they are for race use (read competition use) only.  They will be road legal.

 

Their availability will depend on the manufacturers.

 

My own opinion is that the wording of the petition is limiting you to the use of last years tyres.  Just 1 year.

 

There are lots of reasons that 1b may actually be good for some classes - say up to 200bhp but after that your on your own chaps!

 

My argument would be why create 1c when the tyre manufacturers understood they would be allowed in road going. (Thats why 1c was created) and then not allow us the choice.

 

I would sign the petition if the wording was different.  I think its putting everyone in a corner with its current wording.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

The proposal actually makes it better and easier for newcomers as you can use ANY tyre from the lists. The main issue is that existing competitors who have certain tyres now cant use them under the new rules as they are on another list to what they used to be. Our proposed change brings them back into usability

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

The list 1c tyres will be sold new.  They may not be e marked and will have some wording on the side to say they are for race use (read competition use) only.  They will be road legal.

 

Their availability will depend on the manufacturers.

 

My own opinion is that the wording of the petition is limiting you to the use of last years tyres.  Just 1 year.

 

There are lots of reasons that 1b may actually be good for some classes - say up to 200bhp but after that your on your own chaps!

 

My argument would be why create 1c when the tyre manufacturers understood they would be allowed in road going. (Thats why 1c was created) and then not allow us the choice.

 

I would sign the petition if the wording was different.  I think its putting everyone in a corner with its current wording.

 

Sigh - oh Simon  

 

Think of your potential customers and what they would want

[Meteor Motorsport]

my point is you should widen the petition.

 

remove the reference to e marked tyres as it would exclude new tyres which will not be e marked.

 

it should just refer to list 1c

[windy]

my point is you should widen the petition.

 

remove the reference to e marked tyres as it would exclude new tyres which will not be e marked.

 

it should just refer to list 1c

Precisely my point a while back. In section L3 of the blue book you don't need an emarked tyre to be road legal. A lot of people refuse to accept this though.

And to complicate things further I am using a list 1B tyre in 2015 which already has "for competition use" on the sidewall and is FIA compliant, it's the Dunlop CR311. 

[Marto303]

my point is you should widen the petition.

 

remove the reference to e marked tyres as it would exclude new tyres which will not be e marked.

 

it should just refer to list 1c

 

Hi Simon

 

I've taken yours and some other constructive criticisms on board and made a couple of subtle changes to the petition, hopefully you can now sign and show your support with the rest of us.

 

Martin

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

But we weren't given due warning, and rightly so me and 76 (so far) other competitors say we'd rather be consulted and use the tyres we've got for at least another season.

 

Just for the record what happened was that in the 2015 Blue Book all list 1B tyres where marked as possibly being moved to 1C for 2016, then at the Tyre Committee meeting in September the list of actual tyres that were being moved was drawn up. So of course it could be argued that everyone was given notice of the move in Dec 2014. 

 

Doesn't help if people have just bought new tyres, but I do like to make sure we start with the facts.

[B.RAD]

Hi Nick

I take your point but what you're clarifying is that we were advised a change might "possibly" happen. And I'm only going from information provided by much longer serving speed series competitors here, but hasn't it previously been the case that in our series, we've been allowed to run tyres for two years before adopting the ruling?

It's not an issue with our speed series or the way it's being run, or the way information is cascaded, it's that it doesn't fit with actual rulings for road legal tyres and seems a big impact on competitors overnight. Would a years notice be such a hard thing to apply?

Taking Simon's point, would it actually not be possible for the MSA to allow all list tyres in road going classes?

Cheers

B

[Meteor Motorsport]

Thanks for editing the petition - i will have a look in a mo.

 

By the way this is your championship.  I guess I am trying to relay what L7C is thinking and doing along with personal thoughts.

 

As I hinted above its my calculated guess that L7C will take its 2 lower power classes affected by the 1B/1C tyres in the direction of 1B - most of our guys held off buying tyres as they were asterisked in the 2015 BB.   It will be more inclusive to those running trackday or road set ups.  ZZR in the medium A64 compound as fitted by Caterham will be available and a 1B tyre.

 

Class 5 and 6 which is H pattern up to 265bhp and 6 which is sequential or over 265bhp will both stay on 1C be it in Road going or Mod Prod.

 

We will be though consulting the members and trying to reach a majority decision.  It will never be unanimous.

 

The MSA Tyre committee tried to do the right thing and without seeing any formal instructions or the 2016 BB we are in limbo as to the options.  (Acknowledging of course Nick's statement).  L7C wrote to the MSA and are yet to receive a response.

[Gerry H]

Surely this is a safety issue. 

 

Stickier tyres means higher speeds ~ heavier crashes so full cages should be fitted.

 

You can't insist on full cages in roadgoing so they shift the stickier tyres to a fresh list ~ 1C

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Hi Nick

I take your point but what you're clarifying is that we were advised a change might "possibly" happen. And I'm only going from information provided by much longer serving speed series competitors here, but hasn't it previously been the case that in our series, we've been allowed to run tyres for two years before adopting the ruling?

It's not an issue with our speed series or the way it's being run, or the way information is cascaded, it's that it doesn't fit with actual rulings for road legal tyres and seems a big impact on competitors overnight. Would a years notice be such a hard thing to apply?

Taking Simon's point, would it actually not be possible for the MSA to allow all list tyres in road going classes?

Cheers

B

 

Hi Barney

 

We have had a rule in our regulations allowing tyres from previous years list to be used, however I have checked and that has never been an official MSA policy, so we will not be allowed to have that rule from now on. Tyres must be from the current years list.

 

I can't comment on the implementation date as it's outside of all our control and has been an MSA Tyre Committee decision. In general the longer notice you can give of a change the better.

 

As you will be aware this is being fully discussed by the SSOT to decide how we implement in our Speed Series. Better get back to the hundreds of emails about it   

[pete g]

good luck nick  your the best man for the job