Tyre Question/Class for 2016

[Shaggydoo]

yeah that is exactly my point! i have never tired ZZR's as  i am a newbie trying to get into the sport and to be the honest the new regs of tyres are so me a good thing as it means i don't have to shell out £500 on super soft tyres to have a competitive tyre and i can run a  medium compound tyre that won't wear as quick and can be driven on the road also!

 

I think for road going class which is meant to be the entry level grass roots class this can only be a good thing, obviously there are people with old tyres to use up but  then you did have a years warning on this did you not?

 

still genuinely interested how much difference it makes? for example over a 60 second sprint circuit ? 1 second? 2?  

 

Cheers Paul

This was me last year running 15" medium 888 toyos. I was a very long way off target times, so in order to be more competitive, i made the move onto 13" supersoft zzr. This meant i had to keep the 15" road setup for jollys with the kids, but swap wheel n tyre setup for sprints. More trouble for me really but made me much faster and closer to target time.

This investment seems now to have been a bit of a waste of money for me but it will make things a little simpler for newbies imo.

You can get a good idea how much difference the tyres make by looking at my Sunday Harewood results this year and compare with last year.

[Terry Everall]

This may drive us towards 2 basic classes of road going and non road going with relevant engine splits and I cant see the point of running 1C tyres when all the other cars in mod prod will be on slicks so you have little or no chance of winning a trophy on the day.

[Meteor Motorsport]

I have been chatting to Nick regarding this as I am working On the Lotus 7 Class issues also.

 

I thought we were in a similar position yesterday as you guys.  However it would seem not after further investigation.

 

L7C always run in our own classes under our own Champ Regs which are included in any Supplementary Event Regs.  

 

We may alter the tyre rules anyway but for next year we could continue as we are and just allow 1C in our Road Going classes.

 

If you were to change how your Champs was run and use your own rules you could do the same.  

 

However I do understand you have significantly more events.  We only have 13 and try to get as many competitors at each event as possible and only 7 to qualify.

 

 

Best of Luck

[Onliest Smeg David]

This may drive us towards 2 basic classes of road going and non road going with relevant engine splits and I cant see the point of running 1C tyres when all the other cars in mod prod will be on slicks so you have little or no chance of winning a trophy on the day.

Agree Terry.

So much will depend on how sprint round organisers go with classes, & how the SS fits in with these.

And hopefully SS Target Times will become meaningful with time after an adjustment period.

I'm glad I'm not on the SS committee sorting out the resultant regs due to MSA mess of this! Stirling work you all do

[Arm]

Whoever breaks rank and manages to write 1c tyres to road going will get my vote.

 

I will likely go with that championship.

[windy]

I agree with Stu that it is far too difficult to do and time consuming for the organisers and still probably does not sort out tyres differences, gearbox type , driver aids, engine power, CEC,BEC etc

 

Terry, it's not difficult at all. So simple in fact that the calculations are made on the day so that the awards can be presented based on handicap. Tyres, power and weight are all used in the calculation.

This way of scoring has opened my eyes to a new side of the sport this year which is doing a great job of attracting newcomers, especially those that don't have the budget for an expensive car but have a good driving ability. Lets not forget new competitors are key to the continued success of the Speed Series for 2016 and beyond.

[windy]

what i cant understand is I was told that from 2014 new tyres could not have the eu rating if they did not meet the regulations .[that's fine with me] and if not would be stamped competition only on side wall. but tyres made before that date 2014 November were still road legal for 5 years and have no such stamp on them . 

my tyres are all purchased before this date so are road legal and should be able to compete it road legal class for the next 5years or when they wear out .

by which time they would off gone off and new tyres would be better even in a harder compound

 

why is there a instant ban no tyre people already have . let them wear them out and then decide what tyres they want to buy in future.

 

its easy to police new 1c tyres will have competition only stamped on them.

Pete, a tyre which is emarked is road legal no matter what anyone else thinks. Also be careful with your choice of words- an emarked tyre with "for competition use" on the sidewall is different to one that has "for competition use only" or "for racing purposes only" on it.

The use of "for competition use" on the sidewall is being used by the tyre manufacturers to explore a loophole in the EU regs to enable them to continue selling a road legal tyre made from soft sticky rubber without the need to comply with the new noise / wear regs. Good on the tyre manufacturers to work this one out I say!!!!

 

Just when we all thought this issue was resolved, the MSA then make their own rules up on these tyres to mess it up for everyone.

[pete g]

I was under the impression they would not be e marked but if they are then once again cant see the problem using them

[windy]

That's the whole problem. The MSA are defining an emarked road legal competition tyre as NOT road legal for the purposes of defining list 1C, which when you read the regulation is not correct.

 

Here's the regulation where it is stated very clearly: 

 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32009R1222

 

Scroll down to article 2 for exclusions:

 

Article 2

Scope

1.   This Regulation shall apply to C1, C2 and C3 tyres.

2.   This Regulation shall not apply to:

(a)

re-treaded tyres;

(b)

off-road professional tyres;

©

tyres designed to be fitted only to vehicles registered for the first time before 1 October 1990;

(d)

T-type temporary-use spare tyres;

(e)

tyres whose speed rating is less than 80 km/h;

(f)

tyres whose nominal rim diameter does not exceed 254 mm or is 635 mm or more;

(g)

tyres fitted with additional devices to improve traction properties, such as studded tyres;

(h)

tyres designed only to be fitted on vehicles intended exclusively for racing.

 

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

I asked the MSA for clarification of Championship Regulations specifically with regard to the new tyre regulations and whether we would be allowed to specify that Road-Going cars can run 1C tyres.

 

The answer has come back that Road-going cars will definately only be able to run tyres from the 2016 1A or 1B lists. Any cars running 1C tyres will be have to run in the Mod Prod category. So that's the rule that will be applied.

 

The SSOT have all been discussing the tyre issue at length and now that we have this definative answer we will have to consider what we do with the Speed Series for 2016. So whilst I am sure you would all have liked the answer ages ago it's going to take some time, so please bear with us. This is a possibly big change.

 

It is also worth pointing out that the Tyre lists are drawn up by the MSA Tyre Committee which has representitives from the tyre companies on it. They have to specify which tyres go in which lists. They should all be aware of the regulations that Windy has quoted.

[stephenh]

Is it such a problem that if we allowed list 1C tyres in (for example) classes E & F, they then have to run in mod prod on the day? Is it not similar to the situation which has prevailed up to now, where in many of the events, Classes A and C have had to compete in the same class as E, and classes B and D have had to compete in the same class (on the day) as class F?

Just my thought, playing devil's advocate.

I suspect that in truth most of us are far more concerned about our fellow competitors in the Speed Series classes, than ever we are about our position in the event organiser's class on the day? I know that was the case for me in the last couple of seasons.

[Arm]

Stephen

 

Seems a good option to me. Ok you may not win the class if other non wscc competitors are on slicks and you will have to make sure your car is mod prod compliant other than that are there any other issues ?

 

No different if you were in mod prod and wanted to drive to a meeting or have a road legal car from using  zzr tyres in the class on the day. 

[Valentinik]

Whilst still building my car I'm taking an interest in this topic as i hope to enter the speed series for the 2017 season. Im holding off buying any wheels or tyres until i can be sure the combination i choose will be competitive.

 

Although as a novice i'm under no illusion i would compete for trophies at each event and my main concern would be speed series results. I would still like to feel i can compete (eventually) with the cars entered into the same class at each event. 

[Scottish Bloke]

Terry, it's not difficult at all. So simple in fact that the calculations are made on the day so that the awards can be presented based on handicap. Tyres, power and weight are all used in the calculation.

This way of scoring has opened my eyes to a new side of the sport this year which is doing a great job of attracting newcomers, especially those that don't have the budget for an expensive car but have a good driving ability. Lets not forget new competitors are key to the continued success of the Speed Series for 2016 and beyond.

 

And how would we determine who has what power and what weight. My Supercharged Duratec for example has 89hp

 

Oh and it weighs 4000kg  

[Scottish Bloke]

**before I get in